To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

In many cases floriad travel does the opposite, and brings out the inner "white saviour" or poverty rubbernecker

the question was about freedom of movement, not just travelling.

I believe that freedom of movement has been beneficial in general.

Such a strawman

"I can see why people may be bloody fed up with white ex pats/tourists"
"So you support Mugabe then!"

Oh, ok pancake. So now you DON'T think black only spaces are a good idea? It's confusing when you twist so much .

So - do you think most black Zimbabweans benefited from the policies or not?

floriad okay then. White ex pats enhance the world because......
Go!

Shes saying white people dont deserve passports any more.
Im not saying lets all burn ours
Im just saying its hard to argue that shes wrong!

Because what you're espousing here - not the resort itself but the idea that white people should indeed pipe down and stay at home because it serves them right - is a slippery slope.

Instead of blocking them out, it would be better to encourage more white people to listen and learn why black people feel the way they do, surely??

I imagine this has been covered... white people cannot experience racism. It's institutionalised prejudice against the oppressed group. Prejudice: yes.

White people need to accept that there will be consequences for the suffering inflicted on generations of black people in America.

I am not gettinv drawn into a Strawman arguement about Mugabe

And you know its a Strawman because you wouldnt be resorting to it if you had an articulate arguement about why this lady is wrong to be pissed about white global movement.

Shes saying white people dont deserve passports any more.
Im not saying lets all burn ours
Im just saying its hard to argue that shes wrong!

Unbelieveable ...

Instead of blocking them out, it would be better to encourage more white people to listen and learn why black people feel the way they do, surely?

Are you serious?
You think Black Women havent TRIED to have their voices heard about Black womens issues???
How long should they politely sit there with their hands up in class before theyre allowed to go fuck this, lets play hookie.

Convenient for you, pancake.

Let's look at it another way then and flip your question around.

How do black ex-pats or tourists enhance the world or the countries they've moved or travelle to? What is it you think they do that's so different to white ex-pats?

Also, I don't really think a resort is a "white global movement"; it's a few days in another country.

Im just saying its hard to argue that shes wrong!

How? The right to be able to prove one's identity, to move freely within the laws of the countries one happens to be in, to cross country borders for legal reasons... That's something you want anyone to justify?

Really?

Its not the fact that white people have relative ease of movement. Its what theyve DONE with it! And whether its resulted in harm or good.

You say good? Great! Warm my heart and tell me why!

Pancake it's like you can't read plain English.

I said, it would be better to encourage white people to listen. I didn't say black women had to do that.

Quite the opposite - it's white men and women who should be encouraging each other to listen, really listen.

But don't let common sense get in the way of a good old froth, will you??

How do black ex-pats or tourists enhance the world or the countries they've moved or travelle to? What is it you think they do that's so different to white ex-pats?

In many cases its an extremely different dynamic.

Its like an indian coming here after india was ruled by Britain, and having had British values superimposed upon on their own, is not the same sort of movement as the British who went to india.

Alright, here's an example. How do you think the bajan economy would look without largely white tourism?

www.barbadostourisminvestment.com/tourism-profile/

Lots of people depend on that spending to make a living.

floriad okay then. White ex pats enhance the world because......
Go!
you're asking me to justify immigration for white people or want me to say how it enhances the world... fair enough. However:

Black immigrants enhance the world because...?
Arab immigrants enhance the world becase....?

GO!

What I am actually saying is that the freedom of movement has been beneficial in general. Not just for white people or expats... Trade, cultural exchange, immigration etc.

A lot of areas that are dependant on tourism are dependant on tourism and not self sufficient as a direct result of western interference.

Its not the fact that white people have relative ease of movement

Yes it is; you've just stated very clearly that you find it "hard to argue" against the stance that white people shouldn't have passports, and that's exactly what a passport confers

You really don't get to insist you actually meant something quite different when you're questioned about it ... or rather you can try, but only at the expense of any credibility your argument might once have had

Nah, you're still not answering your own inverted question.

Take the example of the young men who are risking their lives to travel to Europe from various parts of Africa - what do you see them as doing to "enhance" (to use your word) the countries they land in?

(Because I would say that some of them will be greatly enhancing and some of them won't. Because they are people, not a travelling skin colour, and people are all different. But you clearly see it differently...)

Right but unless/until you can undo that historic interference, many people depend on the tourism trade to make a living.

So if you support an argument that it should be taken away from them by agreeing with this woman that whites shouldn't have passports, you'd better have some great ideas to replace 50% of the economy of those countries!

Rebeccaslicker

I have more freedom to go to Africa than they have to come to Europe.

You cannot disentangle the ladys statement from that disparity.

Have I EARNT that enhanced freedom? Am I more deserving of it? Have I used it to do good?
No no no I just have it!

PancakeInMaBelly

I think you know full well that what she said was racist. It seems you have backed yourself into a corner and just won't admit you made a mistake.

Discussions like this aren't about 'winning' or 'losing', they are about learning from each other.

You obviously feel like admitting defending an obviously racist statement was a mistake will somehow make you look bad, it really won't.

Continuing to defend it to the nth degree in the face of all common sense will though.

The danger of not being prepared to admit you are sometimes wrong is that if you do it for long enough, you end up not being able to admit it to yourself.

PatriarchyPersonified

Is it really that hard for you to comprehend that someone disagrees with you?

Can you prove that disparity?

I have more freedom to go to Africa than they have to come to Europe.

Have I EARNT that enhanced freedom? Am I more deserving of it? Have I used it to do good?
No no no I just have it!

Ah.. If you think that the solution is no passport for white people?
Or that this in any way a reasonable and not absolutely indefensible suggestion?

You could always start with your own passport and similar documents...

I'm certianly not suggesting that you can't make this decision for yourself. Have at it.