To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

In America white spaces are the default. The existence of SOME places where black people outnumber white does not disprove that!

I get the sense that this 'I experience things differently than you' has become a way of shutting people down when they probe you for more objective indicators of racism.

Because like sexism the objective indicator is not always there to be described. So the experience is rejected.

"A lot of white people have a victim mentality."

Indeed and its odd because, at worst, all that is being experiences is a slight loss of privilege.

Scottishdiem

The objective indicator would be tangible evidence that you are being deprived of something or discriminated against on the basis of your race.

If instead of that all you have is 'I feel like I am discriminated against' then you might be, but then again, you might not.

I cannot believe what I am reading here. It's like I am in a parallel universe. Her comments comments if she was white are wrong, so are her comments as a black woman. So because it's racism against the oppressor class it's ok, they shod suck it up. What are we teaching our children, that some racism is ok if it's not black racism. We should be teaching them that all racism wrong. Her comments are wrong and unacceptable.

There are very few black people incolved in this thread for a thread about a black woman....

Can someone explain to me why racism in general is wrong?

Yes I know the question will sound ever so simple and it will make me look stupid.
But please tell me, why is it wrong?

married I am sure there are black Mumsnetters, they are free to come and share their view.

for some of us it is self-evident that the women in the video are tired of having to deal with and live with white people

In a long life, I've come across only a few people I can't get along with at all - and they've been of varying races, colours, sexes and so on

But if I ever felt "tired of having to deal" with an entire group, most of whom I didn't even know, I hope I'd reflect on whether the problem actually lay with me

There are very few black people incolved in this thread for a thread about a black woman....

Maybe the women on the retreat aren't the only Black Women who have fatigued from nicely explaining racism to white people......

The objective indicator would be tangible evidence that you are being deprived of something or discriminated against on the basis of your race.

And that works where we can all see it. Like equal pay. But when a group of male colleagues and bosses go on a sports weekend that dont appeal to women that is soft sexism but is it tangible evidence? So is the requirement to have tidy, professional hair soft racism given the expectation of that those two word mean? Is that tangible?

Maybe the women on the retreat aren't the only Black Women who have fatigued from nicely explaining racism to white people......

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!!

Because in our society we accept that all races are equal and we all deserve to be treated the same. This is enshrined in our laws.

That is spectacular. White people getting all hurt because black people treating white people as white people treat them

That sort of pathetic tit for tat attitude leads to the sort of downward spiral that leads to genocides. Rationalising ever worse behaviour because 'they started it'.

Puzzledandpissedoff

Were you a member of the majority culture for most of that time?

The woman’s tone is a bit off and I don’t care for it. However the existence of BME only spaces doesn’t bother me, as a white woman.

There are very few black people involved in this thread for a thread about a black woman

I wasn't aware that it's possible to see someone's colour from the other side of a computer screen?

Unless of course you subscribe to the curious notion that anyone criticising the woman's remarks must necessarily be white ...

Were you a member of the majority culture for most of that time?

No, I wasn't

The woman’s tone is a bit off and I don’t care for it.
If there was a like button I would like this.

Theres an awful lot of pressure on oppressed groups to make themselves likeable. This is the point. She doesnt care if we care for her tone or not any more!

Scottishdiem

How has that got anything to do with what we are talking about?

Nobody has argued that racism is ok

Nobody has said that black people in America do not suffer from some discrimination

Nobody has said that they know better about what black people need

The only person who has come on this thread making sweeping statements about entire races and groups is you.

The only person who has come on this thread making sweeping statements about entire races and groups is you.

Because the OP started with being offended about how someone from a minority group has got to a place where the white people are getting their feelings hurt at what she is saying. To get to that place, the spa provider has had a lifetime of experiences and lived in a culture that is oppressive.

But if white women want to continue with the hurt feelings then fine. I shall leave you all to it. Its just that I thought that here we question male privilege and are unimpressed at the Not All Men Are Like That response we should accept that Not All White People Are Like That with similar disdain. But it seems white people dont like that comparison.....

I think it is interesting how badly some white people react to discovering they are not always welcome/wanted around POC. Upthread someone said it was a reaction to a loss of privilege, might have been you Pancake? I think that is very much the case.

I’m not sure why people are getting so upset about this or indeed the woman’s comments. As I said above, I don’t care much for her tone but that doesn’t make the point she is making invalid.

I’m British but have holidayed in America and gone to food places where the clientele has either been all Hispanic or all Black and there was a definite “ummmm why are you here????” vibe both times. It was unsettling, I’d not experienced it before. That there is the privilege of being white. POC will experience that an awful lot more frequently and long, long before they’re in their late teens. It’s an unpleasant feeling.

So yes, if POC wish to have spaces away from white people, I think that is fair enough and they should be able to create them without criticism.

Sorry scottish it was you who made the comment I referred back to in my post.

Make america great again appeals to people who remember things being great FOR THEM but have fallen on a relatively recent hard patch. To people who were raised to believe that greatness would always be in reach for them. Its a kick in the teeth to people who've been dumped on for generations and who were raised believing that greatness was not available for the likes of them.

Make America Great AGAIN is about harping back to a time when things were better for many WHITE conservative people. A time before some hard won progressions. Not a time that many other groups would willingly regress to.

These people and their short fall from grace do NOT share experiences with people who have struggled for generations

Scottishdiem

No, the OP came on expressing concern about the attitude of the woman opening a retreat for non whites and her 'views' on white people.

Other posters, including myself have stated that having a retreat for non-whites is prob ok if a bit goady, but that making sweeping derogatory statements about an entire race of people is unacceptable and that it makes the woman a racist.

Nothing you have offered so far has done anything to challenge that, to explain why she isn't a racist and why we are all wrong.

All you have done is storm on here with a load of half baked ideas about privilege without understanding what it actually means from a sociological perspective. You seemed at times to almost be attempting to justify racism against white people.

You have then been shot down a couple of times and have now flounced off apparently having proved your point that white people are all wankers.

Well done.

Married3children it's a view like 'sexism is wrong' or 'disability discrimination is wrong'.
Some people might not agree, but for those of us who do, racism is a tool that keeps most of the world in a disadvantaged situation, which seems unfair, and seems to cause pain that is unnecessary.

www.patheos.com/blogs/uucollective/2015/06/racism-101-for-white-people/ here is an article with a perspective on racism that might help.

the 'blue eye brown eye experiment by Jane Elliot is really interesting