If you had money to burn, would you use a surrogate?

[Hippiesip]

Say you're having difficulty TTC a second or third child, would you pay for an American surrogate if you simply didn't want to wait/go through the pregnancy?

I think I would. I loved creating my son but pregnancy was extremely difficult for me mentally and emotionally. I would rather not doing it again, but still growing our family.

Thank you Lana for that bit. All through this thread is this air of forcing somebody to do something you (generally) don't want to do. It's exceptionally difficult here for that to happen.

Exploitation happens in countries that don't have stringent enough rules. Cyprus used to be a port for cheap IVF for surrogates - because IVF clinics here add £5k to the procedure as soon as they hear 'surrogate pregnancy'. India was prime surrogate 'hunting ground' because yep, women are desperate for money. They have banned this now with immediate effect - which caused a lot of issues for IPs who had surrogates due at the time of the ban. Several surrogates have now been left with babies they did not want themselves because their country didn't think it through.

When you talk about exploitation & abuse of somebody in surrogacy you simply cannot tar every country, every surrogate & every IP with the same brush!!

I know more IPs that have been used & abused by surrogates than I do the other way round. Thankfully there are people tackling that so that surrogacy remains about creating life together rather than someone throwing money/making money

I don't think for a moment that all surrogates are forced into it.

I still think it's wrong.

So you think that the decision of a grown woman about what she wants to do with her body (a decision that won't physically harm anyone than potentially herself) is... wrong?

How is this / what could happen to her worse than what could happen to me?

It's not worse.
It's just really selfish.

You would take the risk of killing someone else so you can have a child??

I can actually say that all surrogates are exploited. For a start their bodies are exploited by the wealthy to fulfill their desires. In the US $20-30,000 is not an unusual amount to receive which means there is much potential for those with limited options to be drawn in. There is much quibbling in the contracts about extra payments for health issues caused by the pregnancy including potential loss of wombs and future fertility. Women have been forced into abortions they didn't want as a result of a disability being detected in the fetus.

Even in supposed wealthy countries exploitation can and does occur.

Yes - 100%. I see absolutely no advantage in being pregnant, carrying the child and giving birth.

I accept I can't have more kids.
I don't accept making another woman do it for me.

And you have the right to make that choice. Other women are allowed to make different choices.

How do people feel about live organ donation? I mean, realistically that's incredibly selfish & can have lifelong impacts on the donor. And the donor gets no remuneration for risking their life

As someone who has no intention of ever having children of her own, I'd "rent" my womb in a heartbeat if the price was right.

I think the decision of someone to rent an organ to fulfil a want is wrong.

I'm not bashing surrogates.

I'm bashing the people who use them.

I'm all for bodily autonomy.

But no matter how lovely her intentions.....a surrogate is still being used.

No I think surrogacy exploits women's bodies.

We don't allow people to sell their organs though which is more comparable with surrogacy for payment.

You would take the risk of killing someone else so you can have a child??

Risking my own life - the life of the mother of the child I'm currently carring, my LO - doesn't seem particularly moral either. Just because I'd be selfish enough to want a second child...

However, as I said. I'm currently not seriously thinking about this.

I'm just not ruling it out. "never say never", I suppose...

That in the US it is commercialised. So perhaps you could say that was exploitation, altho of which side i'm not sure. In the UK things are put in place to avoid things like unwanted abortions. Surrogates & IPs discuss this beforehand, right down to the nitty gritty of disabilty in pregnancy, selective abortion of multiples. And if you go via an agency there are procedures put in place before a pregnancy happens, including counselling & psych testing.

No never. I enjoyed being pregnant and would be insanely jealous at the thought of another woman being pregnant with my baby.

How do people feel about live organ donation?

That's saving an actual life that already exists.
The person receiving it will be suffering and in pain.

A hypothetical child cannot suffer or feel pain.
It does not exist.

Women have had millennia of being treated as breeding vessels.

Egg donation can be just as exploitative as surrogacy. I would not want to buy eggs from some young Eastern European woman who’d gone through that process (I know what it’s like I’ve had IVF) because she needed the money. Or the eggs of some woman sharing hers in order to get cheaper IVF.

We allow women to sell their eggs tho. As someone has said above, women who donate can be offered cheaper IVF, women who donate eggs are given expenses to cover costs. Surrogates are legally only allowed to claim justifiable expenses in the UK (US is different) so if we stopped surrogacy we would immediately have to stop egg donation on that basis surely?

Lana but you're still using somebody else so that you as the receipiant have a chance of living. And it isn't a guarantee...so someone has selflessly donated an organ, put their life at risk, faced possible lifelong complications based on a chance it will work.

If surrogacy is exploitation then how is that not???

Risking my own life - the life of the mother of the child I'm currently carring, my LO - doesn't seem particularly moral either

But I still don't get why it's ok to get another person to do it??

I'm "selfish enough" to want a second child.
I accept I can't, as sad as that is.

I could never, ever, ask someone else to do it for me.

I would actually really like to have the option of being a paid surrogate. Perhaps with a proviso that the paying would be parent(s) provide impartial legal advice to their chosen surrogate when writing the cobtract to prevent exploitation/having a fair surrogacy act similar to consumer acts already in place. It's my body after all-why shouldn't I be able to make money off of it if I feel the need or desire to provided that the law ensures that I am not placed in a vulnerable position? I think that in theory it's actually very moral to allow women to do knowingly whatever they want with their bodies. The law can step in to prevent exploitation as it has in other industries-its not a perfect solution but blanacing the interest of protecting women and not controlling women is a fine line. Telling all women what to do because some women are exploited is illiberal. It's not right either.

Surrogacy arrangements have no legal standing in the UK and the legal parents of the child at birth are the surrogate and her husband (if she's married). Many would be parents choose to go elsewhere as a result.

As the agreements have no legal standing there is no real monitoring of them either so who knows whether money changes hands or what really goes on.

But I still don't get why it's ok to get another person to do it??

Ok. Let's try to honestly understand each other.

I see it as... a balance. I can put my own life at risk (for something I want) or let an other woman put her life at risk (which she gives her consent for, for something both of us want).

If a surrogate went ahead knowing they had shit pregnancies i'd question it. I'd question motives tbh, & yep i'd question the IPs because they are risking their unborn baby's life too.

For a woman who had good pregnancies (as i did), enjoyed being pregnant (i did), and was generally fit & healthy, i wouldn't question it at all. Yep every pregnancy is different, i'm finding that one out this time! But we talk about women having choices & control about their own bodies...then want to take that away from the ones who want to help? I actively get involved with the campaigns for rule changes so that nobody can be exploited on either side...here & abroad. But i'd hate to see surrogacy banned.

I still see my surrobub, who will be three in August. Her dads are the kindest people you will ever meet, they are amazing parents. They took such good care of me & my DD through our journey, which was highlighted by our CAFCASS officer & the PO judge. They aren't bad people & believe me they aren't rich with money to throw away. They wanted a family, as many of us do.

People that donate live organs do so for people they love usually.
It is not a business. If it is then it is also wrong.

women who donate can be offered cheaper IVF

As far as I'm concerned this is a terrible practice.

Holding women's desires for a child hostage for a risky procedure so that they get cheaper help??

Fucking horrible.

Donating eggs is fucking risky.

But it's ok to coerce desperate women into a risky procedure so they get cheaper treatment??
Isn't that bullying??

It's not like donating sperm.

You can't just pop eggs out on demand.

It's life altering hormones and operations, not a wank.