If you had money to burn, would you use a surrogate?

[Hippiesip]

Say you're having difficulty TTC a second or third child, would you pay for an American surrogate if you simply didn't want to wait/go through the pregnancy?

I think I would. I loved creating my son but pregnancy was extremely difficult for me mentally and emotionally. I would rather not doing it again, but still growing our family.

People don't agree with surrogacy, that's entirely their right. Although if you've never actually encountered people involved & only really experienced it through the media, imo your view is skewed.

Some people tout adoption as the best possible alternative. Some people don't agree with adoption for various reasons...does that then make them wrong?

Some people view egg donation as a wonderful chance for childbearing...some disagree.

At what point does one view point - and that is all that it is, an opinion - become 'wiser' than the other? There are no statistics on so many of the points raised in this thread. There are also a shed load of comparisons being made between surrogacy & various other avenues but it is all opinion.

At no point have i told anyone they are being judgemental. Even when people have likened surrogates to prostitutes, or hinted that we are vulnerable women unable to make our own decisions, i have not slated anyone or told them they are wrong.

I've given facts about surrogacy here in the UK. Facts, not opinions. And i've shared experiences. Just because they don't align with your views or experiences doesn't mean they are wrong, and i've at no point name called or suggested people are judgemental

No I think surrogacy is usually prosperous women exploiting poorer and/or vulnerable women
Surrogates are never prosperous,academic,career women,however the surrogate bears babies prosperous,academic,career women

I'm bowing out of this one now, as it's become a bit of a battle ground over whose right & whose wrong. The discussion has been brilliant tho, & its been fab to hear experiences from other surros & IPs

“Surrabob” and such twee terms, especially for traditional surrogacy where the DC is genetically the birth mother’s, belittles the psychological risks to and concerns of the DC and seems disrespectful and inconsiderate.

Do you perceive similar psychological risks to the child with GS? For the purposes of this discussion I mean GS where the IPs are both genetic parents, no donor egg or sperm. In GS there is no biological link, the surrogate mother is nurturing the baby for 9 months and bringing it into this world, but there's no genetic link. The baby is brought up by its biological mother and father, and grows up knowing their surrogate mother and knowing their story and how they were made.

In the UK surrogacy isn't commercial, matches are based in friendship and trust. The surrogate holds all the cards. They choose IPs. They set their terms. They have legal rights - the IPs do not. The surrogate is not a brood mare.

A child born via GS in the UK will know how very wanted and loved they were and are. Their story isn't a secret or anything that is hidden from them. Do you believe that having spent the first 9 months of their life within a surrogate mother's womb is psychologically damaging to a child?

Do you perceive similar psychological risks to the child with GS? For the purposes of this discussion I mean GS where the IPs are both genetic parents, no donor egg or sperm. In GS there is no biological link, the surrogate mother is nurturing the baby for 9 months and bringing it into this world, but there's no genetic link.

It would be interesting to see research, wouldn't it? When will there be a big enough cohort of adult GS babies, I wonder?

The baby is brought up by its biological mother and father, and grows up knowing their surrogate mother and knowing their story and how they were made.

OR it's brought up by one biological father and another social parent (M or F) and there's an egg donor out there who is the genetic mother.

It would be interesting to see research, wouldn't it? When will there be a big enough cohort of adult GS babies, I wonder?

Yes very much so. There's much more research into the psychological health of the surrogate as things stand, and sample sizes for ongoing research into the long term effects on children born via surrogacy are by definition relatively small at the moment, but the body of research is certainly growing:

eg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24256993/

OR it's brought up by one biological father and another social parent (M or F) and there's an egg donor out there who is the genetic mother.

I specifically said in my post "For the purposes of this discussion I mean GS where the IPs are both genetic parents, no donor egg or sperm"

Well for the purposes of general discussion you can see it as three groups of children produced.

I'll bookmark that link to read tomorrow. I do find it all fascinating.

Yes absolutely there are three groups

TS where the genetic mother is the surro
GS where the genetic mother is an egg donor
GS where the genetic mother is the intended mother

Much of the conversation has centred on the psychological risks of surrogacy where the child hasn't been raised by their biological parent, as in the first two groups

I would like to know what psychological risks people perceive in the third group. Selfishly because that is the situation I face myself and I am interested in different points of view

Surely there's a fourth group too? There was a post upthread (I think it was you banana?) about donating embryos for surrogacy?

So there's
1 TS genetic mother is surrogate and father an IP
2 GS genetic mother is an egg donor and father an IP
3 GS both genetic parents come from embryo donation
4 GS both genetic parents are IPs

Is that right?

Or 3a both genetic parents come from gamete donation. Genetically that's the same as 3 but there is a much higher likelihood of a full genetic sibling out there with 3 than 3a.

Fuck yes, in s heart beat.
I had awful PPD and it's stopped me from having another

Definitely not if I could do it myself. I'd probably consider it if I couldn't have one myself. I'd feel more comfortable with a UK surrogate because then it's being done for altruistic reasons rather than financial reasons.

@LipstickHandbagCoffee sweeeeeeping generalisation there. My straight surrogate is grammar schooled, degree educated with a proper career
I however, work part time in a call centre and my dh is a chippy 🙄🙄🙄

Ps I wrote a book for dd, sounds way more impressive than it is ... mummy and daddy met blah blah married blah blah mummy’s tummy didn’t make eggs for babies blah blah
She’s always known and cracks jokes as she’s become an adult
No ill effects as yes but I do wonder if she’ll wobble when pregnant herself

Either way, as someone else upthread said, she knows she exists as she was wanted so much, not given away because she wasn’t

*Surely there's a fourth group too? There was a post upthread (I think it was you banana?) about donating embryos for surrogacy?

So there's
1 TS genetic mother is surrogate and father an IP
2 GS genetic mother is an egg donor and father an IP
3 GS both genetic parents come from embryo donation
4 GS both genetic parents are IPs

Is that right?*

No, group 4 is not permitted for surrogacy

A baby has to be genetically related to at least one of the IPs

So you could have GS with donor egg but the IF's sperm. Baby is genetically related to one IP, but unrelated to the surro .

Or GS with the IM's egg but donor sperm. Baby is genetically related to one IP, but unrelated to the surro .

Or TS with the surro's egg and the IF's sperm. Baby is genetically related to one IP and genetically related to the surro

Embryo donation is similar to egg donation and sperm donation. It's for a couple where they can't use the mother's eggs, so can only use a donated egg. They may opt for embryo adoption using two sets of donor gametes rather than a father's sperm, for a number of reasons. These are usually leftover embryos frozen embryos from another couple's cycle, where they don't want the embryos to be destroyed or used for research, and to have a chance of life

Scenarios for embryo donation can include:

A couple would need to use donor eggs but aren't comfortable with only one parent being the genetic parent and one not, and would prefer their baby to be either genetically theirs or adopted

A woman is single but can't use her own eggs and would need both donor eggs and a sperm donor

A couple have both sperm and egg issues and would need donor egg and donor sperm

Sorry for typo - group 3 is not permitted for surrogacy!!

Group 1, 2 and 4 are. Group is not, as donated embryos are not permitted for surrogacy.

Or 3a both genetic parents come from gamete donation. Genetically that's the same as 3 but there is a much higher likelihood of a full genetic sibling out there with 3 than 3a.

Also not permitted for surrogacy, as neither IP is genetically related to the child.

So if you fell into group 3, even if it wasn't a choice (single mum with poor egg quality, both members of a couple have poor gamete quality) you would have to go overseas for surrogacy?

So if you fell into group 3, even if it wasn't a choice (single mum with poor egg quality, both members of a couple have poor gamete quality) you would have to go overseas for surrogacy?

No. Regardless of where the surrogacy takes place, a parental order has to be granted in the UK and the surrogacy has to be according to UK law. Couples using donor gametes at overseas clinics have to take DNA tests to prove that one parent is genetically related to the child, in order for a parental order to be granted in the UK

Even if the IPs go straight on the birth certificate in the country where the surro lives (eg the US, Ukraine, Georgia), the UK law doesn't recognise these, and still considers the surro the legal mother until the parental order is granted

So it's not possible to get around the law overseas

This is the government FCO advice for couples going abroad for surrogacy. It states that DNA evidence that the father is related to the child may be required in certain instances.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/477720/neww_1.pdf

As in, you wouldnt be able to proceed with surrogacy. You can only do surrogacy with one parent genetically related to the child. If two sets of donor gametes are required and the mother cannot carry the child, then any kind of fertility treatment is not legally an option, they would have to go down the adoption route

Also the law doesn't permit single people to do surrogacy

Surrogacy is only for couples in a stable relationship, as determined by CAFCASS

Yes, because of on going health issues pregnacy isnt straight forward for me. However, would have to use an egg donor as wouldn't be able to take the drugs needed to harvest eggs.

It would mean that I would be in a fit state to care for a child rather than a mess for a year or so.

Yes 100%! Me and my husband have already used a surrogate for all three of our children. For me it was ‘social surrogacy’ because I have no intention on ruining my body, getting all the side effects and have no interest in leaving work at anytime.
It worked for the surrogate too because she enjoys doing it and gets a large sum of money.
It was the same with breastfeeding, I ended up buying other women’s breastmilk and then bottle feeding the rest of the time.

Meant four children but as in three pregnancies. The last two were twins and ended in being a caesarean birth.