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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WWYD Moroccan lover

146 replies

DreamManOrScam · 12/02/2018 16:21

NC as outing. More WWYD than AIBU.

I have a dear friend who is very keen to settle down and have a family. Her Tinder profile says that she is looking for a husband and that she wants to have a baby. She is in her early forties.

In November she met a Moroccan man on Tinder and in January she visited him, in Morocco, for one night. She has not spent any more time with him in real life, but is planning to visit him at the end of February again. She has/will be paying for both trips. He is in his late twenties.

In the last fortnight, she has told me that they are engaged to be married and that she is working on his visa application. She believes they will be married within 4 months and that they will live in the UK. She would like to get pregnant as soon as possible.

She has told me that his English is not very good and that they have trouble communicating. She has asked him to sign up to English lessons and she believes he has started this. I know she has a team of colleagues who she has spoken to about him but she says that they are all being narrow minded about her decisions. I take that to mean they are expressing concern on her behalf. She has not listened to their advice.

My concern: that she has advertised herself as vulnerable and that someone has proposed incredibly because of this. I believe there's a good chance he would like a visa and that he thinks he can easily manipulate her into falling in love. Her family do not live in the UK and they do not have any concerns about this marriage (they have not met him). She cannot afford to raise a child on her own and would have to quit her job if she became a single mother. Of course, I could be being a worrywart and stereotyping.

I have tried encouraging a cautious approach but my advice is falling on deaf ears.

I really do not want her to be hurt. WWYD?

OP posts:
hmmwhatatodo · 12/02/2018 16:50

Your friend is a wally. Her family don’t have any concerns? Is that because she hasn’t told them anything?

4teensandababy · 12/02/2018 16:50

Can you send her in the direction of Tunisian Love Rats? (google it)
I appreciate he's Moroccan, however, the stories on that site should certainly resonate with her (and hopefully open her eyes!)

usualGubbins · 12/02/2018 16:52

Re fees, you might want to send her this - www.fergusonsnell.com/news/uk-immigration-update-20172018-home-office-fees-announced/

I know someone who went through this and had already been married for about a year, it took ages, and cost a fortune!

DreamManOrScam · 12/02/2018 16:52

Her family are from a muslim country and many of her siblings and relatives married in a matter of weeks / months. They don't see this as being any different. They seem to be missing the obvious elephant in the room.

@4teens I haven't heard of it but thank you. I will take a look and see if it's worth sending. Thanks very much.

OP posts:
mindutopia · 12/02/2018 16:54

I would be honest with her about your concerns and try to have a real heart to heart with her.

I do think that realistically it won't be easy to get him a visa unless there are other extenuating circumstances (like he is an asylum seeker, etc.). I'm non-British and immigrated to the UK to marry my now dh. I'm white, English speaking, a professional, had a sizeable savings and the ability to support myself while here, and my dh and I had a genuine relationship with years of records to support that. It's a really extensive process and my life was combed through with a fine-toothed comb. The Home Office will want to see a lot more from them than what you're describing. For us, they wanted years of photos showing we had spent considerable time together, evidence of our travel to be with each other, correspondence (our emails, Facebook, chats, etc. to each other). They wanted to know he could support me (there is an income threshold for UK partners). They combed through all of our financial records. I had to prove I could speak English at least reasonably well, etc. And it's expensive. I've spent over the past 7 years of applying for residency visas close to probably £10,000 in fees to the Home Office. I'm still not even a citizen. It's genuinely a tough and exhausting process, even more so for someone who doesn't share a cultural background with the UK or has a language barrier.

So I think you can express your concerns and also try to point her towards information about how hard all of this will be. With evidence of only two trips to see each other for a day or a few days at a time, it will is unlikely he'll get a visa, even if they are married. It sounds like what she really needs though is a friend she can just talk to about all these things and I would try to be that, while being honest with her.

Beetlejizz · 12/02/2018 16:55

When she says she is working on his visa application, does she mean she's doing it herself or she has a lawyer doing it? Because I'd strongly advise the latter- even if it's completely genuine on both sides, nobody should make a big commitment like marriage without understanding what they'll need to do in order to be together.

Beetlejizz · 12/02/2018 16:56

If they think he's likely to claim asylum mindutopia that will be a hindrance rather than a help!

hmmwhatatodo · 12/02/2018 16:56

And they think it’s normal that he is half her age and wants to marry her straight away. So what if they are Muslim, they must surely see that he’s just playing a game. And surely they will want to speak to him.

HollyBayTree · 12/02/2018 16:57

A (male) friend married a latin American lady - genuine relationship - dating for 5 years - and she cannot get a spousal visa bcause he doesnt earn enough money. I might have that wrong about the spousal visa, I wasnt really listening long boring saga, all I know is he doesn't earn enough for her to come and stay here with him.

MikeUniformMike · 12/02/2018 16:58

So if I set up a profile account on Tinder saying I'm looking to settle down, and I get a reply from a man in North Africa, who is about 18 yrs younger than me, and I go over to meet him, we spend the day together gazing into each other eyes, struggling to make sense of each other's language, and have sex, then he asks me to marry him, it's not because of True Love?

DreamManOrScam · 12/02/2018 16:59

@Mindutopia That sounds like such a headache for you and your family. I hope you get citizenship soon. I knew it wouldn't be easy but that's a helpful real life example of just how difficult this is.

@Beetle She's trying to get her paperwork in order (including her finances) at the moment so she can approach a lawyer.

OP posts:
Ariela · 12/02/2018 16:59

She should say she would like to live in Morocco and see if he runs a mile.

Footle · 12/02/2018 17:00

I believe the requirement for a non-EU spousal visa is £18.500 for each person.

milliemolliemou · 12/02/2018 17:01

Just no. I apologise if he really loves her. But we'v seen enough of people trying to get UK passports including the false marriages in this country .

And they can't communicate because she doesn't speak his languages and he's finding it hard to speak English?

I don't know WWYD. How do you get through to someone who may be delusional and whose family seem to have no views?

AdalindSchade · 12/02/2018 17:03

I know a fair few Moroccans and lots of them want to move to Europe (men and women). It's easier for men to meet women and they often turn on the charm. It's fairly common for Moroccan women to expect men to pay for everything and buy them things and the men then transfer those expectations to their foreign girlfriends.
Just because he wants to come to Europe doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad person but the concept of taking advantage doesn't translate to Moroccan people the way we understand it. For him he probably sees it as a fair exchange/mutually benefit.
Anyway she's being very naive but I guess if she wants a baby she'll probably be happy enough in the end.

DreamManOrScam · 12/02/2018 17:04

My father thinks we should report the marriage to the Home Office as a sham. I am trying to tell him that this is not the solution!

OP posts:
MarthaArthur · 12/02/2018 17:04

Lets say she did marry him and get pregnant. If he leaves her could he take the baby to morocco?

Geronimoleapinglizards · 12/02/2018 17:04

You have very little chance of changing her mind on this unfortunately and she's an adult and it really is her mistake to make.

I've seen this a few times before because of having a Tunisian friend. The same thing plays out over and over - the marriage is one of convenience. The men often have a fiancé back home who is their age. They can play the long game - they can keep up the pretence of a happy relationship for months to years so it's very hard to get through to people that it's not real.

I think all you can do is support her. If you criticise, she will cut you off quite possibly. If you can ask her questions, that might enable her to see the reality. So things like saying, 'what are you going to do if your dp decides to circumcise your child?' Or 'what are your plans together if he decides he has to live in Morocco after you've been together a while?' Or 'how long will you be happy for him to be dependent on you if he comes here and can't find work.' Equally there's the issue of if they have a child and visit Morocco, I'd bet money on the fact that she would need his permission to get her child out the country - if it gets that far he can manipulate things so they get stuck there. Has she considered that? If she really wants a child with him, she needs to.

I think he'll have great difficult getting a visa here in all honesty but at the same time if she's smitten, she might keep going back and forth for a long time. You really do just have to let her get on with it. It is her life and it's her mistake to make. If I were you I'd just change the subject when she talks about him. Don't give it any oxygen.

FissionChips · 12/02/2018 17:06

I very much doubt she’ll have the required evidence to satisfy that the relationship is genuine.

Knittedfairies · 12/02/2018 17:07

I suspect that the authorities in charge of granting visas will have seen this all before - it won't be easy to get one for that reason alone.

expatinscotland · 12/02/2018 17:09

He has about a snowball's chance in hell of getting a visa, a bit like her chances of conceiving quickly and having a healthy, full-term baby. For every 'I had naturally conceived triplets born born at 38 weeks when I was 50' there are legions in their 'early forties' who can no longer conceive without assistance.

I'd leave her to her own devices. She's an adult. She doesn't need a patronising friend having some 'heart-to-heart' chat stating the obvious to her.

expatinscotland · 12/02/2018 17:12

'If he leaves her could he take the baby to morocco?'

No.

JaneEyre70 · 12/02/2018 17:12

We have a family friend who bought himself a thai bride and it took around 4 years to get her over here, as he had to save and prove he could financially support her. It's not easy getting someone into the country these days, so on that point I wouldn't worry too much. And she now spends most of his income sending money home to her family - he's supporting around 7 of them. It's not quite what he imagined he was getting, let's just say.

Snowonsnow · 12/02/2018 17:15

It is very difficult to get a visa as others have said, I might focus on practical issues like that with your friend. I doubt you are going to make much headway with pointing out the perfectly reasonable fears that you have.

NewYearNiki · 12/02/2018 17:15

He wont stick around for the visa application process either.

He just needs to get here then he will disappear and be an illegal immigrant.