Not quite a TAAT (I hope) but a follow on from the Are You a Feminist thread....

[BertrandRussell]

If you said no, could you say why? And if possible, could you give examples- I know a couple of people have said that they think feminism has gone too far, and feminists think all men are rapists that sort of thing. If you think that, could you say why? What have you read, or listened to that brought you to that belief? No “tearing to shreds” I promise!

I have already said I’m stupid

You're not stupid

I am going to bed. I have an early start tomorrow I have work and I don’t want anyone to think I’m not answering.

The research on boys/girls and gender issues in education is fascinating.

I’m going to bed now but I’ll dig some out and post at some point.

Trust me I’m as thick as mince 😀😂 but I long ago made peace with that

Stem is science technology engineering and maths she does biology physics chemistry maths and I think it’s called additional or further maths. GCSE. She also does pe which covers a lot of physical biology of the human body.

I can’t spell - I rely on spellcheck - it’s one of the main reasons I use my phone - same with me.

Your daughter may well do STEM subjects at school but since she’s female she’s more likely to not have a career in STEM, or specialise in a STEM subject than your son (or my son). So we could wait and see if the balance adjusts over time or we could make sure it definitely does and quickly by having female-focussed (targeted to women) courses, funding and opportunities. Those opportunities would naturally exclude boys because they’re at an advantage in this area already. Do you think that’s equality?

No. Because it’s excluding boys at the same grade / attainment level. And that’s not fair. Opportunities should be equally available to all regardless of sex. In my opinion.

Sorry I don’t mean that to sound rude. Or be fighty.

And yes, the way I think isthe best way means it will take longer. I do understand that. But I don’t think it’s fair to discriminate against one group in the way that the targeted things do. I am not comfortable with that at all.

Sorry, I’m going to bed too, but just to answer my own question - I don’t think that’s equality but I DO think it’s fair. It makes sense to me that we would do something like this to look at why there’s such a disparity between women and men in particular jobs.

Smile I would genuinely love to read more about this, I’m using STEM as an example but I’d love to read up on it. Please do post some links if you get a spare five mins!

I just don’t think anyone should have positively weighted opportunities.

(I don’t know the right word for what I want to say)

Opportunities should be equally available to all regardless of sex - there absolutely should be but there isn’t. If there was then the vast majority of jobs would have an even split.

I understand that but I don’t agree that discrimination is the way to sort it.

(And now I really do have to go to bed I have a 6am alarm waiting for me )

But there’s already discrimination* happening.

*I’m using your word but I’d prefer ‘opportunities’ - there’s already a lack of opportunity for girls in STEM, so it makes sense to give them further opportunity to rebalance the natural opportunity that boys have.

Sorry Bluedoglead goodnight

See, I disagree. They just need to have the same opportunity. Which they are having in schools and they will get there. My way will, admittedly, take longer, but I disagree with your way as I think it’s discrimination.

night all.

But how can it be discrimination to exclude boys but not discrimination to exclude girls? When girls are already being excluded?

But the girls aren’t. Not any more at the basic level fromschools.

(At least, not in DD school, so it will organically change over time )

But they are because if they weren’t then male-dominated industries wouldn’t exsist. So regardless of which subjects they do at school they are still not working in STEM subjects in balanced numbers.

At our school we have targeted help with literacy for boys because it is an area where boys tend to under perform. Is this discrimination?

I find it interesting that when I’ve been engaging and participating and answering many questions put to me I’ve been told I’m looking for a fight

Interesting you should say this,as I've had similar on here before - I'll be answering, engaging, like asked.
Been told I must be a man , I'm an MRA, and a handmaiden.
Nope, just strong and know my own mind and won't be told what to do or how to think.
Then people wondering why there's some women out there who won't align themselves.

The dictionary version yes, the radfem version absolutely not because....

‘I don’t generally say “You can’t be a feminist if.......” But I don’t think you can be a feminist you don’t think women should have bodily autonomy.’ BR

Bodily automony doest trump the rights of a potentially viable human being post 24 weeks. Others are free to feel differently but to me it’s something so fundamentally black and white it doesn’t warrant discussion

BertrandRussell

At our school....
So you are a teacher after all!!! I had guessed at lecturer in an FE college.

Got to say we've been running a whole bunch of WISE and outreach programs in schools to try and get more women in our engineering degrees (about 90% male still). Get lots of enthusiasm at the time and it never seems to materialise into applications. I really don't think there's a lack of opportunity for women in STEM - whatever the block is it's much deeper than that.

And it's only the home students that are 90% male. When we get the Chinese student's in in 3rd Year the ratio's closer to 50-50. Plenty of female engineers at post-doc level - just few white ones.