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To not understand this? *trans related*

135 replies

NomsQualityStreets · 05/02/2018 20:24

I don't want this to be a TAAT but my post was triggered about something I read today about someone being a "woman with a penis" generally threads I've been reading about stores amending their changing room policies and more.

I'm not versed enough on the subject and I don't understand how that can pass?? Please excuse my questioning but I'm very new to the discussion and would like someone to clarify this for me.

Surely if you're a biological man who feels he is a woman and wants to be acknowledged as a woman and is truly committed to it you have a sex change? - and you shouldn't be allowed into female spaces until you've undergone that?
How can you possibly expect to be treated like a woman AND keep your male genitals?

Again sorry if this offends anyone but I'm just quite confused.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 06/02/2018 19:22

There is no such thing as a women with a penis, they are transwoman, or biological men.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 06/02/2018 20:52

Went & looked for Magdalen Burns after seeing her linked early in this thread - found this vid on YouTube & it's brilliant!

Commentating on a transwoman (Theryn Meyer) who's being transphobic about Danielle Muscato 😂
(I'm actually convinced that Danielle/David is trolling the trans community tbh - holding up a mirror to their mental gymnastics)

m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgayb1ez0XU

Ekphrasis · 06/02/2018 22:15

Oh that's a hoot, thank you!

PencilsInSpace · 06/02/2018 22:34

'transwomen are women' is an extraordinary claim.

'anybody who says they are a woman should be welcomed into all women's spaces because they are totally safe and much more at risk than (old fashioned cunty) women' is another extraordinary claim.

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. It's not on to berate women for referring to a small out of date study when the trans community have produced nothing better, or in fact anything at all on this topic, in the seven years since the swedish study was published.

Anybody sane might wonder why transactivists haven't been busting a gut to prove how safe they are to be around women, given their extraordinary claims. Why aren't they calling for decent up to date research so they can wave lots of reassuring stats at us and put our ladyminds to rest? Why are they instead blocking even the collection of useable data as transphobic and churning out survey after bullshit survey to back up their 'give us everything we want or we will kill ourselves and so will your children' blackmail? If transactivists care about trans people why are they blocking research on detransitioners? Why aren't they pushing for decent research on what actually works to improve the wellbeing of people with gender dysphoria?

The plural of anecdote is not data. However, the anecdotes are piling up faster than leaves in Autumn and transactivists appear determined to not collect data themselves, and to stop anyone else collecting it either. Why?

Arf at Datun being 'schooled' Grin Datun, have you achieved some sort of peaktrans zen state or are there tranquilisers involved? I am in awe of your ability to remain calm, evidence-based-rational and polite in response to provocation like that.

Also can we stop pretending that prostitution gets you housed on a sex offenders unit please?

TinyRick · 07/02/2018 07:39

Y'see, what comes to mind for most are the likes of Blaire White, Theryn Meyer, GiGi Gorgeous...effeminate gay males who 'pass'. So it's all 'You slay queen!' and RuPaul Drag Race etc

Yeah, nah. Not nowadays. Why the push for anyone to be 'woman/female'? That there is no need for hormones/surgery to be trans?

Because these are a tiny sample of the TIMs that we have to agree are 'women' and are 'stunning and brave' and are the most oppressed of anyone else on the planet - Christine Weston Chandler, Chloe Frankie Quinn, Eden Belmont, Victoria Valimir, Laurelai Bailey, Terra/Richard Jones, Serenity Dee/Sean Simpson, Kylee/Timothy Jones, Katie Charm/James Davis, Isabel Rosa Araujo.

And that is just a handful that could be mentioned.

TinyRick · 07/02/2018 07:41

Forgot to attach this...

To not understand this? *trans related*
BiologyMatters · 07/02/2018 08:37

I thought that magdalen burns video was very funny. I haven't seen any of hers before but I will watch some more. I think that Faith might be right about Danielle muscato and that she is a troll because I had a very brief look at her Twitter account and she seems to be quite a committed activist for various groups of people including women. Which from what I've seen is not normal for TRAs. surely she shines a light too perfectly on the lie that transwomen are women? She's a TERFs dream come true.

Datun · 07/02/2018 08:42

Arf at Datun being 'schooled' grin Datun, have you achieved some sort of peaktrans zen state or are there tranquilisers involved? I am in awe of your ability to remain calm, evidence-based-rational and polite in response to provocation like that

Ha! 'Zen like' like does not describe my state of mind!

My personal philosophy is to not post anything I can't back up.

That study categorically states that transwomen commit male pattern violence.

Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

It was challenged by a transactivist. One who has persecuted lesbians.

(I can back that up too).

The author of the study was told it was being misrepresented to say that transwomen rape women. Which it categorically does not say.

She does not separate out what the convictions are for. Just that they come under the category of 'crime' and 'violent crime'.

As I said, I'm not a statistician. But, I knew feminists had taken a look at both the survey and the discrediting statements and re-analysed it on the basis of the latter. Feminists whose credibility I trust.

From what I can gather there are two cohorts in the survey. Early transitioners and late transitioners. All of whom had gender dysphoria and SRS.

Part of the study that is being questioned, included transmen. They lumped together transwomen and transmen with controls of men and women. That is where they found no statistical difference. But it doesn't tell you what is the male crime pattern of transwomen only.

Then they did analyse TIMs only, and found they were six times more likely to commit 'any crime' than women and 18 more times more likely to commit 'violent crime'.

And this is the bit that matters,

the survey does not specify from which cohort they came.

And, according to my statistician, they wouldn't have had enough TIMs to analyse, if they only taken them from one cohort. Not in a statistical meaningful way.

I said in that thread that this particular statistician was going to publish an analysis that is easy to read (because the actual study isn't, unless you are statistician).

And I said when she does, I will post it. Which I will.

I also asked for any statisticians out there to take a look at it and give an opinion.

Not because I have any doubt, whatsoever, in saying that TIMs pose as much of a threat as any man, but because if the conclusions are unclear, or wrong, I'd like to know it.

It's a complete pain in the arse having to counter claims that transwomen acquire female pattern violence, when it is obvious they don't.

And I, personally, am not qualified to understand how the survey works. But it would be useful, either way, to get clarification, even if I'm wrong.

But as I said to Rat, or Debbie, I can't remember who, I don't need the survey to back up what I say. However useful it is or isn't.

It's handy shortcut, that's all.

"I know I'm right, here's a study".

(Instead of I know I'm right, here are the UK prison statistics, US statistics, this never happens website, the trans crime database, these two videos, this prison authority quote, the Ministry of Justice, these newspaper reports, etc.)

I was going to post a link to that thread on here myself, but Rat beat me to it.

Because I'm more than happy for anyone to read how I was 'schooled'!

I'm not sure it says what they think it does.

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 07/02/2018 12:12

Only part way through this, but this comment made me laugh.

Theryn Mayer said (to Danielle Muscato) on the subject of not giving any physical cues as to being transgender (ie performing gender, which DM isn't doing):

"...At the end of the day, if we say that being trans is solely based on identity then you're basically saying that being trans is based on someone saying that they are - and I think that is a slippery slope to mass chaos..."

So is Theryn Mayer a TERF now??!!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=-qUY5CV9jjM

FaithHopeCharityDesperation · 07/02/2018 12:14

Sorry, comment was at the 10:34 point on the vid.

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