About School and detention?

[Recallclock]

Prepared to be flamed.

Dd has sen and is according to schools own safeguarding team 'vulnerable'
Because of bullying and lack of options when we moved her her new school is out of Borough.

There has been a few times she has been kept back as a whole class detention because someone else wouldn't shut up talking and missed her connecting bus and got home very late leaving her waiting forty minutes alone at a bus stop and walking through the door at 6.30pm. (her school finished at 4.10pm but even keeping them back twenty minutes means she misses her commenting bus.)

I had a lot of involvement with the old senco who was brilliant and was in contact regularly but a new one has started and I have little involvement with her however I spoke to her on the advice of Mumsnet and asked for dd to be not kept back if she had not been involved due to her issues getting home and if she had to be given recall for herself if it could be done at lunch or if it had to be after school with notice so I could sort collection. She's never had individual recall.

I have just had a phone call now to say she is being kept back tonight as she hasn't done her homework. I'm not impressed she has not done her homework (she does have organisation issues as part of her sen) but she's not done it so fair enough.
I'm miles away with no car and can't get hold of my Dad to get her so my sen child will be on detention until 5pm and isn't likely to walk through the door until 7pm.
She also doesn't know the buses at other times so is going to be in a right state.

Aibu to have expected them to give a sen child 24 hours notice particularly when I have asked and they agreed or keep her in at lunch?

Pengggwyn
If you do actually work in a school your times of postings would suggest that the children are not getting your attention as you're posting on Mumsnet.
In most schools I know of that would be a disciplinary offence. Oarents and colleagues would be very concerned that non contact time was being spent to argue online rather than do the marking / preparation that the time is allocated for.

I would be very upset in your shoes, OP. My DD1 is vulnerable because of attachment issues and having glasses and hearing aids. I would hate to think of her in that situation, and you should definitely talk it over with the SENCO.

Whole class detentions are also hugely unreasonable, teachers only punish those children who have misbehaved. I remember that the class I was in had a lot of very unruly pupils and 3 of them were expelled in the end. There were also several suspensions. (It was a private convent school for girls.) The whole class used to regularly get punished, although I wouldn't say boo to a goose in class. It really made me resentful.

Once you've raised this issue with the teacher and the SENCO, hopefully this won't happen again.

I don’t think you are being rude. A bit arrogant maybe to suggest that only a teacher, in their own particular school, which clearly is a dysfunctional school, could have the only valid opinion of what does and doesn’t work for children.

Particularly while complaining that parents do not work in partnership with schools!

I do agree we are going in circles. I have things to do. It’s been nice chatting (or having any of my points dismissed, in true old school teacher fashion )

If you do actually work in a school your times of postings would suggest that the children are not getting your attention as you're posting on Mumsnet.

You do know that people can work part time (or in my case, be on maternity leave) and still be a teacher...

I have 2 older children, who attended mainstream school, where detentions, bad behaviour, teachers unable to control class behaviour etc were run of the mill.

In my experience, I found the teachers who dished out detentions, were the ones where the pupils were disruptive in the class. Probably regarded as the ‘strictest’.

Yet there were a few teachers, who had control of the class. Not due to threats of detentions or punishment, but due to having the respect of the pupils, relating to pupils etc. Children were motivated to behave well, do homework etc.

My youngest has special needs, he has attended 3 mainstream schools, with the usual detention, homework, behaviour policies. All these did was raise his anxieties.

He now attends a specialist school, along with all the other children, who also have special needs. Their policies are based on positive behaviour and reinforcement (obviously they have sanctions too)

All the children are exceptionally well behaved and cooperative.

I don’t know if this would work in all schools, obviously as I have don’t have experience of all schools. Just an obversation I’ve made.

I’d be interested to hear Peng, if your school has any positive behaviour and reinforcement policies?

ds and dd schools both have a huge number of children who travel by bus, they have a very simple common sense policy that they always give a couple of days notice of an after school detention.

The detention is, in most cases, highly inconvenient for parents, as they all live at distance and most work, and an after school detention means that the child cannot take the school bus home.

BUT by giving the parents 2 days notice, they can organise a pick up for the child, and, presumably, the parents take it quite seriously if they have been inconvenienced!
They alos have several behaviour steps which kick in before they do detention,a nd they seem to be very effective, so there are very few after school detentions anyway (one of which is lunch time detention)

I do think that schools sometimes miss an opportunity to enforce common sense. In this case, a child with SEN travelling on unfamiliar bus late in the evening is poor practice.

That’s what I’d be interested to hear Peng, what are they?

What I’ve noticed with my children’s schools, is the focus tends to be on the negative. For example If you don’t do homework, you a get a warning. If you don’t do homework you get a detention.

In my experience, I found the teachers who dished out detentions, were the ones where the pupils were disruptive in the class. Probably regarded as the ‘strictest’.

Yet there were a few teachers, who had control of the class. Not due to threats of detentions or punishment, but due to having the respect of the pupils, relating to pupils etc. Children were motivated to behave well, do homework etc.

You cannot generalise - even when you are a teacher in the same school, I do not know what goes on behind a classroom door and neither do you, as a parent.

I give detentions according to my school's policy and my behaviour and attainment is good (I would never say perfect - no class group, teacher, student, parent is perfect 100% of the time) but last academic year (before my maternity leave) I had the best homework hand-in record in two year groups and pretty damn good in all the others. All of my students met or exceeded their targets (first time that has ever happened and probably down to a lot of the guess work in setting targets currently happening but that's another thread).

My students know where they stand, with 2, 4, 6, 8...missed homeworks (odd numbers are always just a written warning in my school) - there is a clear sanction progression. Along with, at the back of my booklets, reward stamps (5 means a merit) for students achieving their personal best, whole class hand in and class team points etc. Students have, in the past, moaned to me when they get a new teacher and the setting of homework becomes inconsistent again because the teacher wants to be 'liked'.

Generally, students like to know where they stand with praise and sanctions - either one being inconsistent is a recipe for disaster. Apologies if this was not your intention but your post comes across as generalising that strict teachers (you know strict teachers can also be fair?) have awful classes and fun/happy/easygoing teachers have great classes. Absolutely not the case across the board and I do get the impression that you direct experience with your DC has lead to very sweeping statements from you that don't necessarily help the OP.

OP, I fully appreciate that this is already being dealt with by you but it does look like some mistakes have happened between the SENCO and the teacher in question for what it's worth (that shouldn't have) and I really hope that this doesn't happen again for your DD and that any future sanctions are set with your DD's SEND needs considered. Detentions don't have to be same day or even after school all of the time and I hope that you and your DD get a good outcome to this.

The positive things they do at dc school are email/letter home at end of each term if they have no behaviour points/good punctuality etc. Postcards home re good attainment (in relation to target) prizegiving, merits, certificate if they get 50 merits. (Also if they get 75 or 100) Reward for having top 10 ATL grades in the year.
They do all the usual negative consequences as well. I don't think you could run a comp without them. It would be like me trying to bring my kids up without ever telling them off. (I see telling off as a punishment like a detention is. Ie you are doing something they don't like to get the behaviour you want.) I do positive stuff too like praise

Peng and I have found, in my experience as a parent and based on my children’s behaviour in school, using the positive works better ie if you do your homework, you get a team point or whatever.

Roly I’m basing what I said on listening to what my children have told me, why they are motivated in x lesson, but not y lesson etc, etc

Fudge I’m not suggesting there should be no sanctions. Just more focus on the positive reinforcement, instead of the negative, has got better outcomes for my children.

Obviously my children do not represent every child. I am assuming that most children prefer positive outcomes.

Pengggwn are you really unaware of how fucking pompous you make yourself sound?!

I would like to say that I seriously doubt you're a teacher, but experience leads me to sadly believe you just might be (or more likely have been in the past). I actually think the vast majority of teachers do an amazing job for far too little reward/recognition, but there is a minority of inflexible, self righteous, shruggy, pompous arses in every profession, sadly.

And attitudes and lack of knowledge like yours are exactly why people would rather Home educate then send their DC to come into contact with people who either don't know the basics, or don't give a shit about the basics. And refuse to admit it.

Your lack of knowledge of the very basics of educating DC with SN (such as statements rather than EHCPs FGS) however gives you away as either not a teacher, or a shit teacher. Readers of your pompous self righteous drivel can take their pick!

Yes, I feel better now, thanks.

In fact I was so busy getting that off my chest that I forgot to answer the op who should be able to expect a reasonable adjustment to be made to safeguard your DC with SN, whilst still demonstrating your support for reasonable action the school need to take.

I have a DC with SN who cannot travel unaided in the dark on unfamiliar transport, and my DC's school wouldn't dream of even expecting them to. I fully accept there may (hopefully very occasionally!) be a need to "punish" or discipline and all sanctions would be applied in the school day eg loss of break. I also realise this may involve staff giving up their time (and buy them biscuits if this would happen ).

It isn't always as easy as send them to another school, or home educate them, or pay for a taxi. The best schools and teachers recognise that and in return I support them and work with them. Their main aim is the best for the students, not always being "right" themselves.

Peng

How old are the children in your school? Why would postcards and letters home be a reward, don't they do that anyway in their free time?