About School and detention?

[Recallclock]

Prepared to be flamed.

Dd has sen and is according to schools own safeguarding team 'vulnerable'
Because of bullying and lack of options when we moved her her new school is out of Borough.

There has been a few times she has been kept back as a whole class detention because someone else wouldn't shut up talking and missed her connecting bus and got home very late leaving her waiting forty minutes alone at a bus stop and walking through the door at 6.30pm. (her school finished at 4.10pm but even keeping them back twenty minutes means she misses her commenting bus.)

I had a lot of involvement with the old senco who was brilliant and was in contact regularly but a new one has started and I have little involvement with her however I spoke to her on the advice of Mumsnet and asked for dd to be not kept back if she had not been involved due to her issues getting home and if she had to be given recall for herself if it could be done at lunch or if it had to be after school with notice so I could sort collection. She's never had individual recall.

I have just had a phone call now to say she is being kept back tonight as she hasn't done her homework. I'm not impressed she has not done her homework (she does have organisation issues as part of her sen) but she's not done it so fair enough.
I'm miles away with no car and can't get hold of my Dad to get her so my sen child will be on detention until 5pm and isn't likely to walk through the door until 7pm.
She also doesn't know the buses at other times so is going to be in a right state.

Aibu to have expected them to give a sen child 24 hours notice particularly when I have asked and they agreed or keep her in at lunch?

[Jamiefraserskilt]

I would go garrity over this...a clear safeguarding issue with a vulnerable student. Under no circumstances is it appropriate to issue an after school detention with two hours notice for her. This could have been done tomorrow lunchtime.
I refused this and made my son get on the usual bus when this happened to us. I then rang to speak to the school safeguarding officer immediately and asked them to remind the teaching staff to read the frigging digest page regarding detentions. After school detentions were not permitted by the parents without 24 hours notice under any circumstances and punishments were to be carried out during the school day if possible.
The big one he missed caused ructions but I insisted they not take it out in him and to speak to me instead.
That is what safeguarding is there for ffs.

[Ireallylovetea2]

I think that's awful, and even worse for a child with SEN.

I do believe that schools should have to give 24hrs notice of detentions for safeguarding (safety) reasons or conduct them during lunch/break time, if it really must be same day (though I can't see why it would ever really need to be).

This at least gives parents time to arrange transport (not everyone drives or has a bus route to their house).
Especially in winter when it gets dark early, I believe it's a safeguarding issue to allow a child to miss their bus and to leave them waiting in the dark with no way of getting home, or possibly walking home alone.

Really hope you get this sorted.

[Seniorcitizen1]

My mother told my schools that I would never attend after school detention unless they provided transport home for me. I said the same to my son’s school. As it happened it didn’t matter as we were both very well hehaved. Also said would never do whole class detention for bad behaviour of one or two pupils.

[upsideup]

Pengggwn

But it is the schools responsabliltity to protect students and make sure they are safe. Giving a afterschool detention to a SEN pupil who they class as vunerable and who lives a long distance from the school so will then not be able to travel safely home is not acceptable, 2 hours notice is insufficent.

[Aspieparent]

I have a 13 year old ds with sen. He has a ehcp. It's written that he's to vulnerable to transport himself to and from school. My dad actually takes him and picks him up. He can't do bus as it would take 3 to get there and back. We have had this issue of them trying to keep him after school not let anyone know. My dad can't pick him up any later eventually after numerous emails the senco wrote to all his teachers and told them he can't do after school. He has to do dinner time ones. I as you want him to do punishments of he's got them but he can't travel alone.

[Seniorcitizen1]

Penng - if you read my post you will see both me and my son were very well behaved so never a problem. But is school keeps a child back until after school bus has left - which in the days was a safe journey - they need to make sure a child gets home safely.

[Recallclock]

Well apparently dd has gone to the safeguarding officer and explained and they have said to go. She will still be late but I can meet her.

Apparently they phone everyone at 2pm with the notice so that was unrelated to her sen.

Ironically dd thinks she finished the homework sheet in class and handed it in as it was a different teacher and she had finished work early!

[Greensleeves]

Completely unacceptable for the school to keep her back when her SEN means that getting home after the agreed buses etc have gone. Many children with SEN can cope with mainstream school, with the right support, but only if the school works with the parents and takes its duty of care seriously. Sadly not all do.

I would ask for a face to face meeting with her tutor, the head of year and the SENCo and I would make it crystal clear to them that keeping her behind so that she misses her regular bus is a safeguarding failure and that it simply will not be happening again. I would be open to discussion about alternative methods of sanctioning her if necessary, but she would not be staying at school and missing her bus.

Sorry if that sounds abrupt but after all these years of fighting for a child with SEN in mainstream schools (and as a teacher myself) I am usually pretty to-the-point on these things now. You decide where the line is in terms of your daughter's safeguarding needs and don't let the school cross it. If necessary, write to the Head, ccing the governors and the LA and explain why your daughter's right to access a mainstream education is being compromised by this ridiculous policy. Whole-class detentions are slovenly practice anyway, the school will know they shouldn't be using them.

[Greensleeves]

School policies are not law, Pengggwyn. I think some teachers become so immersed in the little micro-society of the school in which they work and have authority that they forget that other people have rights and needs as well. I have, through entirely polite but forceful and persistent effort, managed to get schools to unbend on numerous "school policies" over the years where it was clearly the case that adhering to the policy contravened their duty of care towards my child, or their obligation to deliver the full curriculum to every child safely.

[Greensleeves]

The law is also that schools must make reasonable adjustments to meet the needs of their SEN students. Generally schools are reluctant to do this, because one-size-fits-all policies are easier. I imagine this attitude is particularly prevalent in a school where whole-class detentions are still considered acceptable practice. This is why parents of children with additional needs have to be prepared to stand up to intractable policies which are not fit for purpose.

[Recallclock]

At no point have I asked for school to make arrangements to transfer her.

We have a senco agreement that she will get detention within school hours if her or allowed to go if it's class detention. We have a senco agreement that all teachers will email senco if dd is required to stay late. Dd explained this to the teacher. It's a small school so they know the kids well. Teacher didn't care and told dd basically it wasn't her problem and to sort it with safeguarding.

All I wanted was notice so I could safely collect my child.

[Recallclock]

Transport sorry.
Hate this phone!

[TheFairyCaravan]

I would be going bat shit over this.

I couldn’t give a fig if a school policy says they can keep them back without notice, that doesn’t over ride the Equality Act where it says reasonable adjustments have to be made for people with disabilities. It sounds like you have that in place with the SENCO Recall so I would be wanting to know just why the teacher thought they had authority to ignore it.

[Punta]

I would say this is a safeguarding issue. I am a teacher and our school has 24 hour notice detentions. In this case, as they already know she is vulnerable, they should make reasonable adjustments for her. Contact the SENCO and the Senior Teacher responsible for safeguarding.

[upsideup]

Pengggwn

It might be in the law that schools can give no notice detentions but not that they have to, I would like to presume that any resposable school/teacher would put the need for the child to be able to get home safely over the need to punish immediately, ie they can hold the detention of for a few days so the parent is able to sort alternative tranportation.

[Recallclock]

Peng I don't know and like I said if dd is being silly or not doing work I will stand by them 100%. As I said Im not asking them not to punish her if she has earned punishment.

But over riding the senco with a child who is usually very good in school, gets good reports and most teachers tell me she is a pleasure to teach, has one behaviour point because a teacher lost it with the whole class for talking and gave everyone one when many kid have loads and has never ever had individual detention before in 18 months in ANY class seems a bit much over a homework sheet when the child has diagnosed planning and organisation issues.

I don't think she's an angel. She's stuck in her ways and has for the first time in her whole school life got friends so I am betting she will chat but...

[upsideup]

SEN or not, previous arangements agreed or not. The childs safety should always be paramount.