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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

DD doesn't want to go to church any more

603 replies

jessicabenomi · 04/02/2018 23:18

First-time poster here...

My three dd's have been coming to church with me every Sunday their entire lives (dh doesn't come).

It's increasingly being a struggle to get my eldest dd (aged 14) to come. She always says she has too much homework or she wants to meet her friends. Today after we got back she said that the youth Sunday school was so awful that she never wants to go again and she doesn't believe in God.

She's had one of these anti-church "episodes" (I know that's the wrong word I just can't think of another) every few years, but has always calmed down and come back to church before.

Am I being unreasonable to make her come with me? I don't want to force her if she truly doesn't believe, but my faith is so important to me and my church family have been so supportive at difficult times of my life. I just want her to have that support too.

OP posts:

OiraseLife · 05/02/2018 01:42

But regarding an interesting discussion, your language and that of other posters is hardly conducive to open, respectful conversation.
The language of religions is hardly ever conductive, open or respectful, when the whole premise of it is non believers burning in hell for eternity.

DonnyAndVladSittingInATree · 05/02/2018 01:42

have religious people done something horrible to you in the past?!

Ummm.....

MadMags · 05/02/2018 01:43

FEW, OP, I don't think you should be doing anything other than letting your Dd make up her own mind on something like this.

All that failure stuff sounds a bit mad!

DonnyAndVladSittingInATree · 05/02/2018 01:44

I think I'll try to speak to the vicar this week about what he thinks I should do.

ask the person whose faith is in question. Maybe.

Original poster

jessicabenomi · 05/02/2018 01:44

The language of religions is hardly ever conductive, open or respectful, when the whole premise of it is non believers burning in hell for eternity.

Not that I speak for all religious people, but I certainly don't believe that, and most people at my church don't either.

OP posts:

MadMags · 05/02/2018 01:45

Irish, you're just another poster who is trying to make one thread by one poster with one issue into some sort of campaign against organised religion.

As I said. Weird.

EastMidsMummy · 05/02/2018 01:47

MadMags, your timid, non-commital pussyfooting around the heart of the matter does no-one any favours.

Some things are true and some things are not true. Just believing in stuff with no good evidential reason doesn’t lead to truth and can lead to the most terrible consequences. It’s important that we call that out.

OiraseLife · 05/02/2018 01:47

My husband isn't religious but I don't believe he'll go to hell because he is a good person and lives his life according to Christian moral values, even if he doesn't believe they come from the same source as me.
Why can't your dd follow your dh then, why is she needed to go to church if there's a perfecrly suitable alternative then

thegreatbeyond · 05/02/2018 01:51

As someone from a religious family and still practising, quite serious about it: please let your daughter experience/find God in her own way. It is a hugely personal journey. Don't push her away. Just leave it be, and tell her it is her choice, because it absolutely is.

Also: look to your own faith in Jesus for reassurance that she will be guided in whichever way is right for her.

EastMidsMummy · 05/02/2018 01:52

Where has OP imposed it on you? I missed that post...

The OP asked our opinions about how far she should go to impose her beliefs on her non-believing daughter.

The discussion has grown to cover the wider implications, as discussions do.

DoubleRamsey · 05/02/2018 01:52

@EastMidsMummy there are an awful lot of intelligent people, world renowned scientists even, who have faith. It's not as simple as 'I don't think it is true therefore it isn't'

Or do you think only stupid people have faith?

LizardMonitor · 05/02/2018 01:54

OP, surely if she needs the support in tne future and can fund it in faith, the church will be open to her?

Her relationship with her own belief is not about you, she is not rejecting you, her Mum.

But if you co-erce, cajole and pressurise her she will resent both you and the church, and where will her support be then?

It isn’t ‘your fault’ for not putting MORE religion into her life! And please, if you speak to your vicar, do so with a mind that it is to help YOU come to terms with your Dd developing her own views and not to try and manipulate her attendance.

For love and suppprt your Dd needs her Mum to listen to her, love, and respect her.

Tringley · 05/02/2018 01:54

I was a little younger than your daughter when I realised that I did not believe in the religion I was being raised in. I went to my mother and told her this, naively assuming that she'd respect me enough to accept my religious choice. But nope, she said my belief was irrelevant and I had to keep going to mass each week.

I can honestly tell you that nothing ever cause more damage to our relationship. The anger and resentment I felt about her not understanding that her beliefs were not something she had any right to force on me grew and grew and our worst arguments about it lasted well into my 20s. We have always been very close and we remained so but it was definitely a rot that could have destroyed our relationship if not for a mixture of how close we were otherwise and the death of my best friend's mother when we were 13 making me hyper aware of the importance of a mother.

Tbh, there is a decent chance that now, 25 years on, I'd still harbour some of that anger and hurt except that my mother has herself turned away from religion and admits how utterly indoctrinated her generation were. It's easy to understand why she forced mass attendance on me when she was raised to see it as an unchangeable fact of life. And it's not possible to still feel anger at her about a situation that was even more forced on her than it was on me. We were both victims, it was just easier for my to break away due to coming of age in a different era. And on a practical level she fully understands and supports my decision to never baptise my son. I would hate for her to be anything other than my ally in that.

So OP, I wouldn't worry one jot about what others will think of you but I would worry about how you react now will shape the relationship you have with your daughter for the rest of your lives. She is telling you a truth about herself, something that is every single bit as important to her as your religion is to you. Freedom from religion is just as much as a right as freedom of religion. If you deny her that right, it could be something that she never forgets and never forgives you for. 15 years from now if she is having/planning her own family this has to the power to be the difference in whether she feels you are her full supporter as a new mother or an obstacle she has to stand up to. Don't be the latter just because you are worried some people who aren't actually your family may pull their judgey pants up around you.

MadMags · 05/02/2018 01:54

It's important that we call it out?

You're sounding more nutty by the second! Is your intention to lie in wait for any poster of faith who ever posts and rain a barrage of condescension down on them until they give in and don't believe anymore??

Because I have to say, that sounds far, far crazier than someone believing in god!

OutThereToo · 05/02/2018 01:54

Some people when I was younger left the Church where their parents worshipped for a livelier one with people their own age, a band, etc. Or went with their parents in the morning, but to a livelier Church in the evening. Also checkout Greenbelt festival. Sometimes it’s not leaving the Church, but finding one on your own that’s right for you.

EastMidsMummy · 05/02/2018 01:56

do you think only stupid people have faith?

Obviously not.

I think their faith is stupid, not that they are stupid.

OiraseLife · 05/02/2018 01:56

Irish, you're just another poster who is trying to make one thread by one poster with one issue into some sort of campaign against organised religion.
If that's to me, there's nothing weird about saying you shouldn't force someone into religion and discussing the premise of religions and how they try to keep people in them, such as aggressive language and beliefs about non believers, as it ties into the ops comments.

MadMags · 05/02/2018 02:00

Except the only aggression on this thread has come from non-believers who have used it as an excuse to bash people with faith, and religion as a whole, and seem to be blaming the OP for the crimes of organised religion...

PyongyangKipperbang · 05/02/2018 02:01

The problem is that she doesn’t believe in God and you are refusing to accept it.

This.

You are talking to the vicar, asking us, worrying about what everyone at church will think but the ONE person you are not listening to is her!

She has told you what she thinks, told you what she wants and you are refusing to listen. If you want to make sure that the Sunday before she turns 18 is the last day she ever sets foot in a chuch then carry on as you are. But if you want her to think about faith and consider returning to the church then back the fuck off. By all means offer her the chance to come to adult services with you, but thats it. No more.

You try to make out that you are concerned for her spiritual health, but the truth is that this is all about you and you are being bloody selfish, so for both your sakes and the sake of the mother/daughter relationship, leave her the hell alone.

DoubleRamsey · 05/02/2018 02:04

I think their faith is stupid, not that they are stupid

So how do you explain non stupid people having 'stupid' beliefs? And more importantly why do you feel the need to 'call out' intelligent people of faith who presumably have seen the same 'evidence' as you and come to a different conclusion. It's a little bit arrogant to think you know best enough to post patronising comments. Agree to disagree or polite debate is a bit more appropriate maybe?

Calling out religious values which infringe on non religious people is a different matter. But that's not what you are doing, you are patronising people about faith itself.

EastMidsMummy · 05/02/2018 02:08

Is your intention to lie in wait for any poster of faith who ever posts and rain a barrage of condescension down on them until they give in and don't believe anymore??

I’d love to but I have work in the morning...

It doesn’t seem from the first post that the OP is really listening to what her daughter is saying.

The daughter clearly just doesn’t believe. She thinks the Jesus story is ridiculous. Like Game of Thrones!

I think it’s valuable to show believers what that might feel like. That there’s more to it than an uncertainty about certain parts of the creed. That it can mean that the daughter thinks her mum is deluded. Is nuts.

So, yes, it might seem a bit like a textual slap in the face, but anything I’ve said is actually far less strident or confrontational than the stuff you’ll read in the Bible.

EastMidsMummy · 05/02/2018 02:10

MadMags please post an example of anyone blaming the OP for the crimes of organised religion.

MadMags · 05/02/2018 02:12

Your last sentence alone highlights what I mean, East. OP didn't write the bible and isn't responsible for what it says.

EastMidsMummy · 05/02/2018 02:13

Faith is, by definition, an irrational belief.

It’s stupid to hold beliefs for irrational reasons.

So, faith is a stupid belief.

EastMidsMummy · 05/02/2018 02:17

Your last sentence alone highlights what I mean, East. OP didn't write the bible and isn't responsible for what it says

The OP wants to raise her daughter according to the teachings of the Bible. She doesn’t need to have written it to have responsibility for that.

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