DD doesn't want to go to church any more

[jessicabenomi]

First-time poster here...

My three dd's have been coming to church with me every Sunday their entire lives (dh doesn't come).

It's increasingly being a struggle to get my eldest dd (aged 14) to come. She always says she has too much homework or she wants to meet her friends. Today after we got back she said that the youth Sunday school was so awful that she never wants to go again and she doesn't believe in God.

She's had one of these anti-church "episodes" (I know that's the wrong word I just can't think of another) every few years, but has always calmed down and come back to church before.

Am I being unreasonable to make her come with me? I don't want to force her if she truly doesn't believe, but my faith is so important to me and my church family have been so supportive at difficult times of my life. I just want her to have that support too.

This is about you respecting your DD's ability to decide for herself. At 14, she's old enough to have an opinion of her own. There is something intolerant and counterproductive about forcing her to go against her will - surely, this is an opportunity for you to show that you will always love and care for her, no matter what. Such an example is far more likely to bring her back to the church in times of future trouble.

I would, however, find out exactly what was so horrendous about the youth service. Maybe there ARE changes that need to be made?

Bartholins Because it's wrong to troll hunt and if we believe someone to be a troll we're supposed to report it.

As the OP is a first time poster who seems, despite having gone to a Methodist church for well over 14 years, doesn't know that they don't have vicars in Methodist churches but uses that term more than once, something isn't ringing true.

I pointed out the incongruity so that people could make up their own minds and perhaps not waste time responding to a GF or PBP or whatever as MNHQ are much slower in checking them out at this time of day.

“The burden of proof is on the believer, not on the non-believer.”

The whole basis of ‘faith’ is that you do not seek or demand proof. It sits outside the scientific framework for empirical testing. People may believe they have their own resins for faith, but the whole point in religious faith is....faith!

And that the faithful get their strength from that very commitment to God / faith etc.

(Brought up religious, now atheist)

You can't force your dd to 'believe' or go th church to please your minister.
Your dh doesn't go and he is fine.
Your dd needs to make her own choices. Forcing her is going to push her away just like the person at bible class has.

Just because she doesnt goes now doesnt mean she will never go back to it later. She might or might not it's her choice.

I get that I'm being selfish. I'm just worried about what everyone will think when I suddenly turn up with just 2 kids. The vicar is always talking about how it's so important that we keep our young people coming to church, and how sad it is that teenagers are losing their faith. They're all going to think I've failed.

So this is all about you then. That's really unfair on her. You need to respect her views.

My mother forced 3 children to go to church until they were 18. All of them lost their faith long before that (or never really had it in the first place). None of them darken the door of a church now. All it causes is resentment.

You can't prove the non-existence of God.

We don't have to. Believers claim he exist. He who claims, proves.

I used to hate my mum dragging me to church every Sunday. I used to go in this side alcove and dip my fingers in the tea candle wax and peel it off as something to do. I stopped going when I was a teenager.

As an adult I take comfort from going to church. I don't go regularly but do believe in God and attend on main Christian days.

You have built the foundation. Let her go her own way now. She may come back to it later on.

Religious freedom. If you have christian tolerance, respect another person and leave her at home. She's old enough.

Belief cannot be forced. And it isn't sad if people are losing faith, the world would be better without it.

As as I know, religious practice in the UK is entirely a matter of choice.

she will be called back eventually ... may be in a few years time or on her deathbed when she's 80
This old chestnut. When I was a nurse I nursed many terminally ill patients and this just doesn't seem to happen very often.

My mum made me go to church with her. I detested every minute of it from the age of 8 onwards. I finally stopped when I was about 13, and she was unable to physically make me go.

I still resent it to this day tbh. Don't make your daughter go.

Shes old enough to decide for herself. Forcing her is vvv wrong. It will have the opposite effect that you want.

What's it to you if an anonymous poster or two believes? Why be so mean and arrogant?

Because religion is evil.

Oh bless.

She is old enough to make her choice, forcing her to go, would not be a good move.
Going to church does not make her a better, cleaner, person.
She can still harbour her own beliefs, and may choose to visit at Easter or Christmas.
I stopped going to church at the age of 12, but my faith is still strong.
She is still your lovely daughter.🌸

I think it’s sad that your proposed solution is to talk to the vicar about how to solve the ‘problem’ with your daughter. That isn’t going to help with the core problem, which is that you’re struggling to accept that your DD is growing up and may want to live life very differently from you. It is hard to accept that; accepting it and supporting our children in their choices is perhaps one of the hardest things we have to do as parents.

If you want to talk to the vicar, it would probably be best to make the conversation about how you can step back and accept that your daughter will make her own choices in life. But don’t make her the ‘problem’ for you and the vicar to solve.

Don’t ask her to spend the time she’d have been in church reflecting on her beliefs or exploring religion. Just let her get on with doing things her way.

It’s completely fine if your daughter doesn’t believe in god. It’s completely fine if she never sets foot in a church again and rejects religion entirely. It’s also completely fine if she decides later (in a month, a year, a decade, whatever) that she wants to practise the same religion as you or if she decides that she wants to practise a different religion entirely. She will find her own way, and it will be different from yours (even if she decides that she wants to be a practising Methodist in your church) because she’s her own person.

I dont think anyone should force their children into believing anything.

From what OP has written it seems to be the rather intrusive questioning at the youth group that has put her DD off. OP it might be worth discussing that with your pastor/vicar/church leader. If they think it's important to keep young people coming to church, maybe he or she can have a word with the youth group person who started all this off? You know, just so they don't put any more children off...

I am a scientist by training and a Christian (same kind of flavour as you I'd say). I'd been exposed to both by this age and decided they were compatible. So the rude posters can wind their collective necks in.
I have never heard of Sunday school for this age group. It sounds cringeworthy. I was helping to teach Sunday school at a younger age.
I'd start off by suggesting she sits with you and hears about adult Christianity, at least on an occasional basis. At this age I was in the choir and critiquing the sermon (conservative Anglican at the time anti-women priests) on feminist grounds (at least mentally) and finding the other bits I agreed with.

And tell the leader of her group why she was uncomfortable. They need to know.
But she is old enough to decide - except I don't think it sounds like she's heard what you hear. Maybe strike a bargain where you go together once a month and discuss the sermon (she's participating in something you love) and then she does her own thing the other weeks.

I said those who state categorically that He doesn't, sound stupid.

Funnily enough, I never said believers sounded or were stupid, just that if you claim something exists, the burden of proof is on you.

But if that's the way we're going, I'll take sounding stupid over believing in some misogynist beardyweirdy in the sky any day.

Pengggwyn, you assert that "there is a clear difference in terms of the extent to which we can ascertain that there is no Santa, and the extent to which we can ascertain that there is no God."

Later you say "It is clearly fallacious reasoning to say no evidence of X indisputably = X doesn't exist."

You can't have it both ways. Belief in Santa is exactly as rational as belief in a god.

You can't force faith. That's why it's called 'faith;.

I don't think you can ask a 14 year old why she doesn't want to go to church any more. It might be as complicated as a fundamental disagreement with organised religiion or as simple as she'd rather stay home and read a book/watch YouTube.

Let her be. You've given her a good grounding in your faith, she may come back to it if she needs it when she's older.

We're Methodists, so pretty liberal - plenty of women preachers/deacons, no creationism...

Well that's nowt special. I come from a similar background. I still turned my back on it.

Clearly the vast majority of people think I'm being unreasonable, but I just think she'll regret it later in life if she stops going now.

Having been that 14 year old girl forced to go to church: I can assure you she won't. I never got the choice, I had to go. I recently told my mum that I resent her for forcing me to go, that in my eyes it was all show. She claims it wasn't, and I believe her, but then I read your following two statements:

I'm just worried about what everyone will think when I suddenly turn up with just 2 kids.

They're all going to think I've failed.

And I believe wholeheartedly that faith has fuck all to do with it. Appearances it what you're worried about. It's all "what will they think of me". Listen to the 14YO me: Get your fucking head out of your arse!

I think I'll try to speak to the vicar this week about what he thinks I should do.

No, listen to you daughter FFS. The vicar can fuck the fuck off. You should speak to your husband, but most importantly your daughter. The vicar has fuck all to decide over your daughter.

My husband isn't religious but I don't believe he'll go to hell because he is a good person and lives his life according to Christian moral values, even if he doesn't believe they come from the same source as me.

I think you need to replace the word 'husband' with 'daughter' here and think again.

Remember that faith is more important than religion. Going to church does not make you a better person

Fucking hell.