Would you stay?

[PrinceofWales]

If your partner said he wanted to get married, at some unspecified point in the future, but not any time when you had proposed to him. Would you see it as a rejection? Or would you wait around?

He's definitely not planning to do it himself any time soon. I know him well enough to know that. We're right on the edge over this and I can't see if I'm unreasonable to feel rejected, unwanted and let down.

Aibu?

He is being very truthful with you. He doesn't want to get married so you can choose to accept that or move on. Nagging or guilting him into it will end in disaster.

Saying you feel robbed of your big day shows it's more about the wedding than the actual vows to you.

Within eighteen months of the relationship you dived in and had a child, the time for this conversation was before that happened. It sounds like he feels it was too soon and doesn't want to make the situation worse by adding marriage to it.

If wanting a proposal is affecting your life so much you can seek therapy to ascertain why and given it's affecting your children it should be a priority.

I’m sorry OP. You are hurting now because you have been led down the proverbial garden path by him.

As PPs have said, he is not going to marry you, he’s just being a coward in saying he may someday.

Your comment about having a rubbish 20s and wanting your 30s to be sorted suggests you have some expectations about how your life ‘should’ be and that you assumed he would feel the same. Your anger is because you feel you have been made a fool of by him, but I would try to let that go.

Instead start planning for a better life for you and your son. Sort out a better job and arrange childcare that doesn’t involve him. Stop expecting him to make your dreams come true. You need to take responsibility for your own happiness and that probably means leaving him behind.

He doesn't see the point.

Oh yes he does! The POINT is that you, the one who has presumably borne the brunt with childcare/pregnancy/maternity sacrifices, would be financially protected. Which he knows full well, and isn't keen on one bit.

He is not nice.

He is fucking you over.

Don't you dare think you have to 'earn' being worthy - you don't. And you can't! It's not about that. It's about a person who isn't on your team, who wants to take but not actually commit, and give.

He wants the option of walking out without a backward glance. He thinks he's entitled to that, and no less- as you say, you're not even worthy enough of consideration as an equal in this relationship for him to even respect the fact that you are upset. You, the little woman? You don't get to feel things and have your opinion taking up space here, you know. I'm not going to feel awkward because of YOUR stupid feelings. MINE, ME, that's different. Placate me now or I pack and go!

Yep, totally worth it, isn't he?

Don't tell me, the baby has his surname?

Make plans - which don't involve him.
Sit down and work out exactly who contributes what here. He could walk away tomorrow - you'd have the kids. Refuse point blank to contribute any of your earnings to the house/running of it. Point out that he's protecting himself by not marrying, so you need to do the same. Your earnings need to be saved for when he leaves. When he does, he's going to be free to travel anywhere for work, cut his overheads by livign on soafas/in a studio flat/taking a live in job - he could do anything. Meanwhile, you'll be left with a part-time job and kids to care for.

Call it what it is. Fine, he wants to make sure he has the option to leave, aka refusing marriage. (Yep, that's the point of marriage - it's financial, if he carries on with the 'can't see the point of it' nonsense) Then you too are going to act within the relationship to protect yourself.

If he wants to p

oops fat fingers

If he wants to protect himself, start calling it that. Start saying, out loud, he's deciding he doesn't want to commit financially to his child and their family. It's not about big days and dresses. Don't let him hide behind that. He's a shit - he has a child but won't commit. That says only one thing.

And if he doesn't like you having opinions in your own home, having feelings within your own relationship, in your own life - then say that too. Call these things what they are. And let him walk !

Wait so you have been married before and have 3 other children? I think that may be a big factor here. You may both have very different views on what constitutes a good marriage (hint: it's nothing to do with the wedding). I second couples counselling.

His sneering at his friends etc says to me he will not marry unless he meets someone who "sweeps him off his feet" and that person isn't you. He does love you enough to stay etc but you are not the love of his life. He may never meet anyone who is, he's quite happy to settle for what you have.

He seems to think marriage is a negative thing, wife pulling the strings, end of the bloke having mates and going out someday...

The OP posted recently that the relationship was having some major issues and that they were arguing, he was resentful of having to provide for them all and she was thinking of leaving.

He's therefore being entirely sensible to not get married just so you can say you are. If asked, most people would advise him against marriage in these circumstances.

You've already made those vows once and then broke them by getting divorced so maybe he feels that makes a mockery of marriage.

I had a friend with a similar situation, not quite the same because her oh did want to get married - just kept putting it off. She set a deadline where they had until that date to decide whether marriage was right for them or whether things ended

I don't want a 'wedding'. My last one was 20 people in a registry office and reception at my mils so every saying I want 'a big day' has me totally wrong.

I know exactly what marriage is about and the reason I left my last one was because that wasn't it. I love this man whole heartedly, and have done for a very long time. Rightly or wrongly, I want to marry him. I'm not going to apologise for it.

I don't need advice on whether I should want to or not, or if we should or not and my previous marriage has nothing to do with anything. I posted because I truly believed my life was heading in a direction that I discovered abruptly it's not. I'm hurt, angry and disappointed.

“Baby, not married, not working is a very vulnerable position”

This ^^
It’s more than just a piece of paper. You are in a very vulnerable position. You are not his next of kin, and if anything happens to him you won’t get anything. At. All.

“and marriage is hard enough even when both partners are in love and happy to be married.”

No, it really isn’t. I don’t ever feel that I have had to “work” at our marriage. If you are married to the right person it doesn’t feel like hard work at all. I have been married for 36 years BTW.

“if you’re in love and have a spark and are happy parenting together does marriage really matter”

Sorry, but yes it does if the mother is in a financially vulnerable position. As a cohabitee she doesn’t have the same rights as a wife. Cohabitees are treated pretty much like total strangers in the law. Nothing comes to them by virtue of their relationship, so whether you’ve been together two months, or 20 years, you will be left with the same – and this may be very little. You might get something if you establish some general property rights, and if there are children there might be some provision for them until they reach adulthood, but that’s often it.

This explains it very well.

“Personally I believe having a child together is the ultimate commitment as you will be united forever, not a ring that a divorce can remove”

Judging from the number of posts on MN from women whose partners have little or no contact with their children I don’t think you are correct there.

I thought I had this amazing event to look forward to soon, something we could plan together

Anybody reading that sees it more about the wedding and not a marriage.

You are entitled to your feelings but so is he. He very clearly doesn't want to get married and if all was well then you wouldn't be having any issues and there's seems to be quite a few of them.

Marriage isn't a sticking plaster or something to do for the amazing event or to show others you aren't single. It's not going to miraculously fix things or make your past better.

It's not just you and him involved in this but four innocent children. Children who you say are being affected as you didn't get your way.

Are all 4 children his? From your first post I thought you were childless, then there is a baby, then there are 4 children - and a previous marriage. From what you say he has said I don't think I'm right but could it be that he doesn't want to support children from a previous marriage?

He is not offering compromise, though marriage or not doesn't really gave a compromise position does it. He us huffing that you won't accept his position. You have to decide how to move forward from that. Are you going to accept it? Or are you tonight move onwards in your goal which will mean leaving him.

I also see the sneering as a bad sign. Along with his summation of his bf’ having “given in” -that’s clear projection and shows his own view of what he thinks marrying is.
He was wrong not to be clear about this from the start, bait and switch.
I’m not that into marriage and married DH after 14 years together, mostly for practical reasons, however it is important to you and him stringing you along is the thing that would make me most bitter.
I’m sorry OP
💐

OP, if he is packing bags to threaten you with leaving, butstaying if you shut up about commitment, he is just getting more entrenched on it.

It is natural that you first hurt and upset. We also get more attached and try harder when we feel rejected so don’t start thinking is your fault. He doesn’t want to commit to you but that doesn’t need to be in reflection of who you are, it may be just mere incompatibility disguised as “it is not that bad” on both sides.

The only other thing that I would say is that every break up is difficult, so it is painful, it does hurt and it will for many months, but leaving is all about giving yourself the possibility or finding someone else or a better situation to make you happier.

If you already know no commitment in his part makes you unhappy, cut your loses, accept it will end and bear with the pain of it for a while, as you have the right to go and find your happiness if you are not going to get it with this man.

I married had 3 children
We broke up.
2 years later, got together with my partner now ( had known each other 5 years by that point)
Had our baby and been together 3 years next month.

Then I apologise for my writing, I didn't mean 'event' in that way, though you're right, it does read that way. I just meant us coming together in marriage. It would only ever have been a small thing done on the cheap. Of course he can have his feelings.

Our issues stem from this problem only. We have already been touch with a therapist though he's not keen.

I know he's shouting it, I'm not burying my head in the sand about it.

Doesn't matter why. The only thing that matters now is how long you're going to put up with it.

Well, I'd would have to quit my job. I have no other way of sorting childcare. So I would have to talk to my manager.

Was baby DS planned?

What was said when he moved in with you & your 3 children?

The fact he thinks you should just accept what he’s said and be happy about it speaks volumes to me.

And then work out how to manage without his income.

Yes, DS was planned.

At the time we agreed we wanted to live together, and marriage was always something he said he wanted. He's still saying he does. I thought he might propose when DS was born maybe.

I just thought we were on the same page so when I proposed myself, I thought he'd be happy. Then it came out that he's not ready, he can't say if he definitely ever will be etc.

I agree with Japonica and was reading the thread wondering if anybody else would point it out, so was glad to see that someone did.

People say that having a baby with someone is a bigger commitment than marriage, but that's just not true. It's very easy for men to walk out, leaving a baby behind. You just have to read any thread about CM to see examples of this.
A marriage however, is not so easy to walk away from, as it's a legal contract and offers both parties, legal and financial rights. That's why some men won't marry, as they don't want their partner to have access to those rights, even if the woman has had their child/ren, and taken a drop in wages, or given up work.
They want to have their cake and eat it. They want "the family", they want someone at home to do the dishes, the laundry, the childrearing etc, they want sex on tap, not have to go looking for it. If the mother is working, they also get to pay out less on the costs of running a house.

It's a win/win situation for them, and when they get bored, they can walk away, without having to deal with the fallout, and without losing any of their money. Ok, they should pay CM, but many manage to fiddle with their earnings to get away with not paying as much as they should, or even any.

OP, I advise you to start looking for a new job. I assume you either work evenings or weekends, as your partner does the childcare, so see if you can change your hours in your current job, or look around for a different one, that will allow you to work with paid childcare.
And then ask him to leave, and ask the landlord if they will take his name off the tenancy.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

I only do 12 hours a week, 3 week day mornings. Partner works shifts.

I'd already been looking to change to evenings ( I can't change anything in my job) but there's nothing about that I can get to ( I can't drive) and is short shifts.

I understand how you’re feeling. My situation was different, I didn’t have any children, but the feelings of rejection and of wanting him to want it as much as I did (and as he had said he did) were the same. It’s a shit way to feel.

It’s pretty cunty of him to have known that you wanted to get married and not either commit to that or to say he didn’t want to, before you had DS.

I don’t know what to say to you though, because you can’t have what you want, which is him to want to be married to you. It hurts. I guess all you can do is give it time & see how it goes/how you feel. There’s no point in giving him an ultimatum or scaring him into marriage because you won’t get what you actually want.

The facts are that I'm ready now and he's not. Quite honestly whether he will be in 2,4,10 years or never is irrelevant. And whether our issues mean we should or shouldn't get married is for us to decide.

I'm ready now, and all I needed was to know that even if he's not ready yet, that we're working towards it, and he can't reassure me on that.

Annie exactly.