Why do people think the government is some form of parent?

[soddingsoda]

I've spent a lot of time in the US, i'm British but have a fair amount of family in the US.

While there's obviously huge social issues in the US, and I feel fortunate to be British I'm just not a fan of the British mentality. Someone said something the other day and it hit the nail on the head: If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair.

I have a second job working behind a bar once a week. Quite often when punters have had a drink they love to rant about the system. One woman 'debating' with the others then pointed to me. Apparently if there wasn't any foreigners over here I would be able to a council house. She seemed pretty stumped when I told her that it wasn't the governments responsibility to house me, I'm healthy, young, able to work and choose to live at home so I can save for a deposit and go travelling and spent a shit ton on starbucks.

Someone also had a conversation that she's had tooth ache for over a year as she needs a filling. She feels that she shouldn't have to pay for it as she pays taxes. I really wanted to point out that if she wasn't down the pub every week paying £3.50 a pint, she could easily pay for that filling within a month.

It's just really starting to grate on me, we live in such a privileged society where we get a free education, everyone has access to a fairly good health service and we have so many opportunities. I just want to give a good shake to some people and tell them to take responsibilities for their own lives as they're adults and that's what adults are meant to do.

skowvegas yes it was pre 2014. However I thought Trump was trying to undo all that anyway?

All that entitlement. So much better in the States with two million homeless people.

Brilliant system.

skowvegas yes it was pre 2014. However I thought Trump was trying to undo all that anyway?

He couldn't even convince his own party to do it.

Mrsgloop exactly. During the snow before Christmas my sisters school closed due to slippery blocked paths. Much moaning and chuntering as to when "they" would come and clear it until my sister organised the parents to do it themselves to much initial bafflement...

MrsTerryPratchett
All that entitlement. So much better in the States with two million homeless people.

And if they dont learn some self reliance and get a job to pay for their insulin, people can die in the street with their shoes full of maggots.

Some of the responses here simply prove the point that the OP is making! It is a common attitude in this country in some groups, I should be able to enjoy the same standard of living as someone who works/worked harder than me.

When I qualified as a teacher my mother's neighbour told my mother that I was 'lucky' to have got a good job. My mother informed her that I had worked hard all through school and Uni, luck didn't come into it.

at soddingsoda He was never on mega bucks, on just over 30K a year 15 years ago. Since £30k now is a fairly good wage (certainly above average), im pretty sure 15 years ago it was a pretty tidy sum.

I should be able to enjoy the same standard of living as someone who works/worked harder than me.

Nope. Same basic provisions: clean water, food, a roof, medical care etc. Extras you pay for yourself!

The US system doesn't work. Millions of homeless, huge crime rate, most incarceration per capita, massive social division and toddlers shoot more people there than adults shoot in other countries. There is an illusion of social mobility which is a lie to keep people compliant.

Canada manages to have communities that help each other out without the worst horrors of the US system. And free healthcare.

Odfod

Mrs Gloop your post sums it up for me. I'm Irish and living in the US for 20 years. There are many terrible things about US customs and society but also very many good things and that feeling of self-reliance and community responsibility is one of them.

I know this is a silly example but a few months after I arrived I was on a train platform and an announcement was made about the next subway train - probably telling us which stations it wasn't going to stop at. The tannoy was muffled and we couldn't hear it. Immediately about 5 different people shouted out loud "the tannoy is broken, we didn't hear that please repeat it". And they did. It was so different than how people would have been at home - there would have been people asking each other "what did that say" etc but I don't think anyone would have taken it upon themselves to just shout out in public.

I think the history of both countries has a lot to do with it. England and the UK have had a welfare system in place for centuries - it might have been brutal but it did exist. There was a network of refuges for the poor in monasteries/abbeys/churches and afterwards the leaders of parishes were obliged to have some sort of relief or workhouse scheme in place (this is where "going on the parish" comes from and you would read too about parishes trying to make vagrants go back to their own parish for help).

US was a country of pioneers who created their local government as they went and had to rely on themselves or their neighbours - help wasn't going to arrive, there were no existing systems. The book Gilead by Marilynne Robinson is excellent in showing this.

When I qualified as a teacher my mother's neighbour told my mother that I was 'lucky' to have got a good job. My mother informed her that I had worked hard all through school and Uni, luck didn't come into it.

tillytrotter1 I also get told how lucky I am that I niace job when Jane has to get up at 6am as a carer, or that Nat has been trying to get a job for years. I didn't just walk into my job, I worked extremely hard to get GCSEs, Alevels and a degree. Also it wasn't so nice when Jane and Nat thought it would be funny to drop all their rubbish in front of me when I was working at Mcdonalds at 16. Shame their parents didn't back up the teachers when Jane and Nat called me a nerd and set alight our science textbooks when we were 14 'because everyone was doing it, not just them!'

sodding "If an American employee sees his boss turn up in a Mercedes he'll be envious and it will inspire him. The same situation happens in the UK the employee would be spiteful and call it unfair."

That trope seems to me to be like Death of a Salesman circa 1940's. I don't care if my boss turns up in a Mercedes, good for her if she wants one. But your post implies an employee is a bloke, - an avaricious one at that, - and we're all after stuff. Is it time I read "Atlas Shrugged" so I can get your drift? Both UK and US are hugely rich countries, relatively, and as a citizen of one, I'd rather we had a baseline income where no-one is living in penury. Beyond that, knock yourself out - buy a yacht with gold taps and stuff. I won't be jealous and I really don't care.

I don’t see anyone on here who lives or has lived in the USA who’s been on the streets
Or had to live in a car because they didn’t have enough money for healthcare when they got cancer

It’s so them and us in the USA
Trust me I know from experience
I’ve seen someone I love lose a business, can’t afford healthcare and end up on the streets in a very short amount of time.

Poverty there is nothing like poverty here. It’s a whole other third world of poor.

Well done for you all who’ve managed to have naice middle class lives there

luck really really DOES come into it. Its lucky you arent severely disabled, its lucky you are white, its lucky your parents didnt sexually and physically abuse you, its lucky you didnt grow up in care.... etc etc etc (im not commenting on any posters specific circumstances here im making a general point)

Hard work is only part of the battle and saying you deserve better because of how hard you work (in terms of basic healthcare, food and housing) is pretty shitty tbh.

I personally think its far more entitled to insist that you are somehow more deserving of basic human rights because you 'work hard'

I also think its far more parental to insist that people need 'tough love'

These arent children to be trained into behaving better they are real adult human beings in vulnerable states who are being exploited so that someone else has the chance to own a mercedes.

No they arent all great people with great morals but neither are working people, neither are wealthy people... the point is they are all human beings who, in a civilised, wealthy country that has the reasources to provide them, DO deserve access to food, healthcare, education and housing.

Honestly makes me feel ill the amount of people on here who essentially dont want to have to feel any sympathy so invent superiority/inferiority. Poverty is NOT a moral failing, it really could happen to anyone.

huntinginthedark I agree. I stayed in California for a few months in my teens and it was shocking. We were living in a gated community and just drove everywhere but once I walked down to the beach towards LA and it was horrendous. There were people living in their cars. The weird thing was that there wasnt any in between. These amazing glass fronted beach houses and then these people rummaging through bins and living in cars. I will honestly never forget that image.

Its not fair, I am having a planned 4th child, how will I be able to buy them an xbox on a pathetic 20k benefits a year.

Its not fair I got excluded from school my teachers expect me to learn to read and write.

Its not fair I have lung cancer, smoking is my human right.

Its not fair I have to wait over 4 hours in A&E to fix my stubbed my toe, I pay my taxes, or I would do if I actually paid any tax.

Its not fair my GP has de-registered me, just because I cant be bothered making the appointments I make.

Its not fair I cant vote just because I am in prison.

Its not fair I can't afford to live in London, the government wont give me more of other peoples money.

Its not fair other people wont look after my parents for free just because I want an inheritance.

Its not fair.....

Well Julie8008
Lucky we are a nice society
Who cares if you have cancer
Cares if you need restbite care
Cares if you need help in old age
Cares if you lose your job
Cares if your homeless
Cares if you suffer from mental health problems
Cares if you can’t get Work
Cares if you need rehabilitation
Cares if need help living where you have family and community
Cares that you can’t look after your parents because your working 3 jobs
Etc etc
If I wasn’t a nice person I would think you were a bit of a duck.
And I would hope that you literally never end up at the bottom of the pile through no fault of your own.

By duck
I mean cunt

beardyMcBeardy

grin at soddingsoda He was never on mega bucks, on just over 30K a year 15 years ago. Since £30k now is a fairly good wage (certainly above average), im pretty sure 15 years ago it was a pretty tidy sum.

You've literally just proved tillytrotter1 point with that grin *
Some of the responses here simply prove the point that the OP is making! It is a common attitude in this country in some groups, I should be able to enjoy the same standard of living as someone who works/worked harder than me. *

My parents are from working class backgrounds but they wanted to better the lives of their children. 30K to stretch over a family of five isn't a huge amount of money but it was better than the previous two wages my dad had before he spent 10 years bettering himself. Shame he died when I was 14 but before then he got to enjoy my brother and sister's wedding that put a fair amount of money too. I guess that's just proving our privilege right? That some people in this world get help from their parents while others don't and in this country it's frowned upon.

Thank you to all the US/US based posters, this is a really interesting thread.

Makes a change from the numerous 'it's not fair, the babyboomers had it better than me' threads.

Huntinginthedark

You make my point perfectly, asking people to take personal responsibility for things that are within their control/choice is akin to asking anyone to pay for anything ever. Bring on communism.

the government wont give me more of other peoples money.

julie8008 some things in that list genuinely ARE unfair. And others would be dependant on context. These things and the choices people make do not exist in a vacuum. Its not communism to acknowledge the extra help that some people have from the beginning of their lives and to try and offer an equivalent to people who arent so lucky. Its not communism to look at the reasons why people make bad choices instead of just writing them off.

There were people living in their cars. The weird thing was that there wasnt any in between.

There is loads of in between. You were living in a gated community in California and occasionally went and past by homeless people - because of the weather, California has enormous - and I agree -
shocking - homeless problem. You didn't meet ordinary people who were going about their business, doing their jobs, rearing their children, not ending up dying on the streets with maggots in their shoes. The country would have imploded if there were only millionaires and homeless.

The US has horrible poverty and a terrible healthcare system - which still works for quite a lot of people. There is Chip, Medicare and Medicaid. Obamacare is still in place and it helped a lot of people get coverage. It certainly isn't perfect - or even close but it isn't some hell hole of misery and starvation for all but the few. Most people in the US are like most people in the UK - doing their best, getting by, rearing their children and having a nice beer and a few friends over every now and then.

But there are fundamental differences in how people view government and the OP has touched on some of that.

Meh. I live in the US and there is plenty of begrudgery here too but you are expected to shut up about it and pretend you are living your best life. People have the same feelings of being hard done by or missing out. They are maybe less likely to blame the government directly for not giving them stuff but more likely to target their resentment at people, especially immigrants / minorities, who are getting things for free (in their eyes).

Overall though, yes, the work ethic in the US is much greater but then again the rewards for hard work are greater too.