School want a letter of apology

[GlassesOn]

My year six son got picked for his schools football team, the team train one day a week and sometimes have matches on those days too. (We all pay £30 per term).

The football coach is quite young, a bit impatient, never speaks to the parents, even after a match, quite dismissive when the boys try to talk to him and I’ve seen him mostly on his phone during training pausing to look up to comment how rubbish they’re are playing is one example.

There have been a few incidents that I haven’t been completely happy with and I told my son I didn’t want him to go back to the team after Christmas but he said he wanted to stay on the team because he had friends in the team etc

First day of January training my husband turns up to pick our son up at the Astro turf pitch (in the school) but no one was there... my husband was confused and went round the school to find them, as no notice had been given to us that training would be held in another place.

After 5 minutes, he found our son in the after school ‘kids club’ because training had finished early (for no reason we’ve heard yet,) he was placed in there as he wasn’t allowed to hang around on his own to wait for his dad, we were told we were being charged £10 for this.

My husband explained to the kids club manager about the training finishing early and if the training had finished at the advertised time on their website then our son wouldn’t have been put into kids club, she agreed to leave off the charge.

Last week my eldest picked her brother up and was told no training had taken place at all, as during the warm up some of the boys were laughing and joking and as punishment they had all been placed on benches in the playground and sat there for over an hour.

My daughter said my son was freezing cold and I phoned the kids club to clarify what had gone on as I was still at work.

I was advised to email a complaint as she wasn’t in charge of the after school clubs, just the kids club which I did.

I received a phone call the next afternoon while at work and got a barrage of attitude by the after school clubs manager, she told me she had investigated the incident throughly that the coach said the kids were acting like animals and put them on the bench until they were ready, I told her I would accept what you’re saying until I’ve spoken to my son again when I got home and if this was the case why didn’t he make them all run around or do some sort of physical exercise as their ‘punishment’? That’s what his old coach used to do if one of them played up, (run around the pitch 3 times etc as that soon made them calm down.“)

It was near freezing that evening and if I stuck my son in the garden for an hour and a half to sit on a bench as punishment I’m sure social services would be called by the school.

I then asked about the previous incident of the coach just packing up whenever he feel like it and she said reconsidering it now she would be charging us £10 for that, as my son wasn’t signed out until 4.50pm even though it took 5 mins for my husband to find where our son was as no note had been left to say training had finished early or moved to another area, but she didn’t want to discuss that.

The head teacher also pulled all the children into her office and told them that they are lying about the incident and it hadn’t been just giggling and that the coach said that they were really naughty.

They have been instructed to write a apology letter to the coach, they also miss their playtime on Monday and are barred from playing on the Astro turf pitch for the rest of term.

So even though all of them say it was just a bit of giggling they are being punished for weeks on end and that’s (after the original punishment of sitting in the cold) & missing their training. Oh and they’ve also being threatened by the head teacher that their year 6 PGL place may be taken away from them (we’ve paid nearly £400 for the trip).

It’s basically the boys word against the coach and the head teacher has decided that the kids are lying.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the two incidents? I’ve told my son he isn’t going back to training but this time he is also okay with it.

Or should I just let it drop? WWYD?

Just got back from work and popped on to see if there's an update.

Hope all went well and you're now sat down relaxed with a cuppa. x

Your questions are awesome OP.

They are specific, focused on the issue rather than speculating and shine a light on the very reasonable challenges to piss poor operational procedures.

Let us know how the meeting went.

I'm on another school thread at the moment and I'm so tempted to link to this one as an example of what an OP should do if they have an issue with school.
You're brilliant OP!

Hear hear Maisy. Hope it went well OP! And I hope in between the silly wrangling the thread was useful for you to sort your thoughts out.

I agree maisypops OP has stayed calm and worked out what the important questions are and taken on advice.
melj if I ever ask for advice on here I hope you are around to help

pig
I have actually linked to this thread now.

A poster was being utterly ridiculous (multiple posters have been saying this but apparently they are beind discriminated against and gaslighted) and when i pointed out they were being hysterical they started on why that's also an attempt to silence her for being a woman... couldn't be because thrir entiee thread is fhe stuff of staff room legends.
So i've said 'if you actually have an issue, look for glasseson on this thread & learn'

OP how did it go?

It’s all done. I was in there for 45 mins but I chewed the ear off one of my friends since then. This may be long

I was called in by another teacher from another year and had the meeting with her and the HT. I was on my own.

The HT had my printed letter on her lap and I started off by asking what time the coaching session had finished on the 11th (question 1) I was told it had finished 5 mins early that day and when they asked the coach this week regarding it, he said he had the wrong time on his phone or watch (they weren't clear on which) and that’s why it finished early.

The HT told me in cases where the parents aren’t there to collect their child, they are put in Kids Club, in this instance they could see my husband had turned up on time (via cctv) to collect our son so they’ve waived that fee.

Then I asked about the being left in the cold last Thursday and why hadn’t the session been cut short etc (question 2) and they agreed and totally blamed the fact that the coach is from an agency (but confirmed he isn’t a volunteer) and that he would have been following his line managers policy... when I said I found it hard to believe that he would have been told to keep a bunch of 9/10/11 year olds in near freezing temperatures for over an hour by his line manager, they said they have been in touch with the agency he is from and they have now changed the policy after a conversation the HT.

I was told the coach was very emotional after last week & there was a lack of communication on that day, as some of the boys knew the coach was waiting for them to stop chatting/laughing etc to commence the training and the other boys thought the whole session had been cancelled and they were just sitting there killing time waiting to be collected by their parents.

The HT said she didn’t call them liars but told them to “stop lying” to their parents about the events on Thursday.
When I explained my sons versions of events hadn’t changed one bit to either me or my husband she said my son hadn’t lied (actually said 'well done' to him) but some boys had lied to their parents regarding their role in the events on Thursday and that’s why they had been called that- but as a collective group not as individuals.

The fact that they missed training and were sat in the cold was not their punishments according to the HT, that’s why they were given detention, the reason they will miss their days to play on the pitch and been threatened with exclusion from the PGL trip.. which when I asked why it had gone this far, she said because she needs to make sure the children can act in a safe manner when taking instructions from someone in charge. Fair enough.

They weren’t able to provide me with a full account of my sons behaviour. Just that the boys were laughing and giggling and weren’t deemed safe to be on the pitch as per the health and safety rules (they did confirm there was no fighting, swearing or any other ‘animal’ like behaviour, bar the laughing when they weren’t supposed to) so I’m a bit

They did say the boys sat on the benches by the pitch for the whole lesson time and most of them carried on chatting amongst themselves but admitted that the majority of them weren’t told that the coach was going to commence the training so they thought it was over.. so have asked the coach to communicate more efficiently in future.

I brought up the fact over and over again which I had most concern about, which was my son being kept in the cold for so long in such cold temperatures and they just kept passing the buck onto the agency which employs the coach.
I do feel I’ve been slightly fobbed off if I’m honest.

They were extra nice to me and only acted edgy when I said about the sitting in the cold for so long. The rest of it they have backed up excuses s for which I have to accept.

The HT said the boys can’t have been ‘that cold’ as one of the children had taken off their shoes and socks.
I’ve since spoken to my son when I picked him up and he said the boy in year 5 who had taken off his shoes (not socks) was changing from his football boots back into his normal shoes when he realised football coaching wouldn’t be commenced.

Apparently the HT was told that on Friday when she questioned the children, so I have no idea why that was bought up to me today as in to prove to me that they 'can't have been that cold' way.

I wasn't offered to be able look at the CCTV so I take their word for it all. Don't really know if I should just drop it. They've blamed the outside agency for the real concern but assured me it's been addressed.

Maisypops I don't feel brilliant. I feel drained and a bit of a dick but thank you.

You've been a great help along with all of you in helping me get some answers.

Even though it's not completely cleared up, I feel better for questioning it, as it was one of the situations that would have kept me stewing for a few months yet.

I wish you were a teacher in one of my children's schools as you sound bloody level headed and fab

I think that my only concern would be they are pulling the 'outside' agency line when it suits them. So no real control over your concerns as it is outside agency but happy to get involved in the sanctions. I think I would be going back to the head and saying on reflection you think an agreement should be drawn up between school and out of school clubs which brings everything into line. So basically if out of school clubs want support with sanctioning students for their behaviour ( which is totally appropriate) then they need to make sure their policies and behaviour expectations are in line with that which the school would follow.

Wow, you must feel very drained - but certainly don't feel bad you've done brilliantly.

There would still be a couple of things from that that would still irritate me.

I feel an apology at least should be offered for the time spent in the cold, whether it was an agency or not, it is a school activity and it is an unacceptable situation for them to be in.

And if they've been punished by detention why are they still threatening pitch time withdrawn and PGL exclusion. Surely they should be able to say thats it you've been punished don't do it again.

Have a cyber hug and hope you are able to relax this evening.

Well done Glasses I don't think you're going to get any better than that (unless you decide to take it further) I feel that the fact they were edgy over the sitting in the cold thing, shows how wrong that was and they are nervous about the repercussions.

You handled it really well green.

You've listened and gone in assertive but willing to hear another version.

One thing I will say is even when chills don't use the words "we were wrong" or "that was a wrong decision" usually their actions indicate their real thoughts!

They've contacted agency and questioned them which means they clearly think there was questions to be answered and also directed coach to be more specific so clearly accept he wasn't.

And I agree maisy advice is spot on. She's helped me with many a school issue and it's always ended up with a good outcome.

Sorry glasses clearly autocorrect thinks you should be called something else!

And they're still going to use that same coach, are they? That doesn't seem right!

Are the full range of punishments still standing, including the cancelling of the PGL trip? They are still being punished several times for one offence which is nowhere near as bad as intimated with the 'behaving like animals' comment from the coach. Children behaving childishly is what children do, to label them as animals and have a range of punishments brought down on them is ridiculous.

I feel they've looked for an way out and have used blaming the Agency as that way out. Surely Agency Staff have to abide the Policies and Procedures of the School?

It sounds like they are fobbing you off, passing the buck and generally covering their backsides. Overall I would still be unhappy. The coach is clearly incompetent - he cannot communicate with the children effectively, cannot communicate with parents, cannot communicate with the School, cannot handle children behaving childishly (as children do), what exactly can he do? Why are they employing someone so woefully inadequate?

Sleep on it, OP. Personally I would be tempted to take it further and question the competency of the coach, but i can understand why you may be reluctant to do that.

Well done for getting answers.

So kids giggling and laughing is a H and S issue? Well I'm not normally one of the health and safety gone mad brigade but that does take the biscuit. They hadn't even started had they?

I do think you have done well, I think they should apologise for saying the children behaved like animals, that is clearly wrong.

Are they still threatening further punishments? If there is any hint of the holiday being cancelled I would take that further.

The Head is really squirming isn't she, she didn't call them liars just told them to stop lying. So if they were lying doesn't that make them liars. Bit pathetic.

I hope your son is feeling OK and that his holiday goes ahead.

Brilliant Glasses

I agree you have won got as much concession from the school as you will ever get.
They have admitted your ds was telling the truth and not behaving very badly.
They have admitted the session was finished early for no legitimate reason and your dh was on time.
They have agreed you don't have to pay for the after school session.
They have agreed that the coach's methods are unacceptable and have complained and got the policy changed.
They have admitted the coach didn't communicate effectively and have told him that must improve.
They have not threatened again to cancel the PGL trip and have praised your ds.

I don't know what else you can squeeze from them. Leave it now. You've been vindicated.

I just wondered if you are entitled to see the cctv, freedom of information or access under data protection. I might ask to see son's file to see what they have recorded on there.

OP, well done it sounds like you did really well, it must have been difficult. Does your school not have a code of behaviour with a list of sanctions? The coach from the agency is clearly out of his depth and the list of the punishments meted out to the kids is ridiculous. If children were laughing and chatting before class, would the same punishment hold?

You’ve just been given a load of old flannel in an arse saving exercise. I despair. The head is completely contradicting themselves. Blaming the agency and it being an agency issue, nothing to do with them. And yet taking it upon themselves to punish the kids. Responsibility goes both ways. They cannot have the kids having their conduct scrutinised by the school and the coach when the head is passing the buck.

Mummyoflittledragon the swimming incident is terrible. My children went to a primary school where a little girl died in a swimming lesson. By the time they noticed her on the bottom of the pool it was too late, they couldn't revive her.

After that incident they hired a very experienced swimming teacher, she was someone I knew and trusted 100%, if they hadn't hired her I wouldn't have let mine go to swimming with the school.

Some things are non negotiable.

GlassesOn
Don't feel like a dick. Schools are made up of humans and humans can screw up at times.
School have done what needs to be done and if it'e anything like schools i've been when things have been raised there's often quite a few sterb words rtc exchanged behind closed doors. It wouldn't be proper for you to be told the details of the coach's professional situation. (E g. I ended up mentoring a colleague who was on a support plan due to very real issues with teaching. The parents were never told the details and it was between me, SLT and that colleague. Sharing that wider would have been unprofessional)

You've handled it brilliantly abd I did link to this in another thread (hilariously where another OP is being a right GF to anyone who disagrees with them and has now had a pop at me ). Sadly, i think they won't bother to read this and see how issues should be raised.

Have you checked about the residential trip? That needs clarifying sooner rather than later, especially if you still have payments to make.

youarenotkiddingme Thank you.
I do try to give advice that helps get a resolution. Glad it's been helpful for you.

I don't like the fact that it looks as though they are going to continue with the same coach!

Hmmm, still using the same coach though?