School want a letter of apology

[GlassesOn]

My year six son got picked for his schools football team, the team train one day a week and sometimes have matches on those days too. (We all pay £30 per term).

The football coach is quite young, a bit impatient, never speaks to the parents, even after a match, quite dismissive when the boys try to talk to him and I’ve seen him mostly on his phone during training pausing to look up to comment how rubbish they’re are playing is one example.

There have been a few incidents that I haven’t been completely happy with and I told my son I didn’t want him to go back to the team after Christmas but he said he wanted to stay on the team because he had friends in the team etc

First day of January training my husband turns up to pick our son up at the Astro turf pitch (in the school) but no one was there... my husband was confused and went round the school to find them, as no notice had been given to us that training would be held in another place.

After 5 minutes, he found our son in the after school ‘kids club’ because training had finished early (for no reason we’ve heard yet,) he was placed in there as he wasn’t allowed to hang around on his own to wait for his dad, we were told we were being charged £10 for this.

My husband explained to the kids club manager about the training finishing early and if the training had finished at the advertised time on their website then our son wouldn’t have been put into kids club, she agreed to leave off the charge.

Last week my eldest picked her brother up and was told no training had taken place at all, as during the warm up some of the boys were laughing and joking and as punishment they had all been placed on benches in the playground and sat there for over an hour.

My daughter said my son was freezing cold and I phoned the kids club to clarify what had gone on as I was still at work.

I was advised to email a complaint as she wasn’t in charge of the after school clubs, just the kids club which I did.

I received a phone call the next afternoon while at work and got a barrage of attitude by the after school clubs manager, she told me she had investigated the incident throughly that the coach said the kids were acting like animals and put them on the bench until they were ready, I told her I would accept what you’re saying until I’ve spoken to my son again when I got home and if this was the case why didn’t he make them all run around or do some sort of physical exercise as their ‘punishment’? That’s what his old coach used to do if one of them played up, (run around the pitch 3 times etc as that soon made them calm down.“)

It was near freezing that evening and if I stuck my son in the garden for an hour and a half to sit on a bench as punishment I’m sure social services would be called by the school.

I then asked about the previous incident of the coach just packing up whenever he feel like it and she said reconsidering it now she would be charging us £10 for that, as my son wasn’t signed out until 4.50pm even though it took 5 mins for my husband to find where our son was as no note had been left to say training had finished early or moved to another area, but she didn’t want to discuss that.

The head teacher also pulled all the children into her office and told them that they are lying about the incident and it hadn’t been just giggling and that the coach said that they were really naughty.

They have been instructed to write a apology letter to the coach, they also miss their playtime on Monday and are barred from playing on the Astro turf pitch for the rest of term.

So even though all of them say it was just a bit of giggling they are being punished for weeks on end and that’s (after the original punishment of sitting in the cold) & missing their training. Oh and they’ve also being threatened by the head teacher that their year 6 PGL place may be taken away from them (we’ve paid nearly £400 for the trip).

It’s basically the boys word against the coach and the head teacher has decided that the kids are lying.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the two incidents? I’ve told my son he isn’t going back to training but this time he is also okay with it.

Or should I just let it drop? WWYD?

peng has been relentlessly combative on this thread, arguing over the most ludicrous details such as the definition of how cold it has to be to be colloquially described as freezing, it is obvious that peng cannot accept anything other than peng's way and peng's view. Comments to her have been no more vile than ones she has made to others, she has been dismissive to the point of sneering at times.

Hope you get some answers tomorrow op

We had an issue with a new coach when my son was at primary. He was being threatened with exclusion from the lesson. Luckily his teacher was great and offered to sit in the lesson if I asked her to. I asked ds what was happening and he said if they overran a line the coach made them sit out after shouting in their faces. My son can be a bit bolshy when someone does this (as I am) I ask found out some of his friends had this too including his incredibly well behaved bf. so I requested his teacher sat in on the lesson, that week he was awarded sporty superstar and there were never anymore issues with the coach. Can parents watch the coaching sessions? Could that maybe change the coach's behaviour ? Good luck op

FitBitFanClub
I don't doubt she can, but on other school threads I have equally experienced absolutely vile posts and havr been jumped on by nasty mobs of keyboard warriors for the sins of:

1. Suggesting that expecting students to follow school rules does not equal blind obedience to authority.
2. Saying if anyone has an issue with rules (teacher, pupil or parent) then they raise them appropriately, not by point blank refusing and then kicking off
3. Saying kids (even good kids) can selectively present a story and so before going in all guns blazing it might be worth taking a few deep breaths abd be open to the fact you might not have all the
4. Saying if you have a complaint or a concern then it's right to raise it, but raise in the correct way.
5. Pointing out that 'those parents' is a phrase used about a particular tyoe of parent who undermine school, are unsupportive, rude to staff, tell kids the rules don't apply to them, kick off over nothing, go ib fuming and trying to score points etc. Genuine reasonable parents with concerns are not 'those parents'.

6.Rebuting posters who give unhelpful advice which would probably hinder posters getting a resolution e.g. report to the LA / Call ofsted / demand a meeting with the head / threaten ofsted (because it's always the same few whipping up fury)

Off the back of those obviously unreasonable positions , I have been told I'm not a teacher, you can tell I'm a teacher, that ai think teachers are gods, that nobody should challenge teachers, that i hate children, that i bully children, that i believe in indoctrinating children, that i ak after blind obedience, that i think parnets should bow down ajd be subservient, that i'm a rubbish teacher, that I know nothing about SEND or inclusion, that i hate students, that I don't respect parents, that i hate parents, that I'm probably a fake poster, that i draw up confrontational relationships with parents, that i don't have any experience, that i must be lying about my positive relationships wirh parents, i must be lying about students liking me and my lessons, that i'm lying about being a decent teacher.

All pretty nasty towards a poster who spends a lot of time giving genuine advice on how to resolve things (which also means saying YABU ar times).

On those threads I really valued people (even people who disagreed with me) pointing out that actually there is disagreemrnt and there's personal attacks.

Maisy the OP of this thread has behaved perfectly reasonably throughout, yet peng continued to pick apart everything she posted and badgered her for an answer to a question which the OP replied to, but peng wanted a different answer and designed the question in such a way that whatever the OP said the answer would be wrong.

The overwhelming majority of posts on this thread have been measured and not 'all teachers are bad/wrong'.

CassandraCross
I agree on this thread most posters have been very reasonable. It'w one of the better school threads i've been on of late.

Some of what Peng has said on this thread is reasonable
E.g. people saying 'it was freezing' out there can mean it was literally freezing or it can mean it was a bit cold.
Keeping children out in the ice abd snow (cough our PE department but ours were runninb) seems rubbish to me and would be awful if the children were told to sit down in the ice for an hour. But if they've messed on and it' chilly then freezing is an exaggeration. It doesn't change the fact th
E.g. The general position in a behaviour situation should (in my opinion) takr the staff account at face value.
Today a student spoke to me aggressively and was very rude. If SLT took the view 'Mrs pops, Timmy said he didn't argue back or shout across the room so you can't sanction' then i wouldn't want to work at the school. There has to be a bit of professional respect and understanding that kids can and do minimise. That doesn' mean students always lie, but i do think the inital stance shpuld be 'teacher says...' and then investigate.

I don't agree with everything Pengg has said, but they have raised some relevant and some posters have been (in my opinion) very personal.

Sure, disagree wrh someone, but don't go after someone's working hours, start claiming they are lying and then make personal comments thr way some have done.

*It doesn't change the fact that the coach dealt with the situation badly or that there are concerns to say that though.

(Stupid android seems to be deleting when i press the enter button )

I disagree Maisy I think the nit-picking about freezing was petty and uncalled for. Outside in January not moving about wearing just shorts and thin shirt will make you feel more than a 'bit cold', the OP said the temperature where she is was 4 degrees that day arguing the toss over whether it actually felt as cold as 4 degrees was merely arguing for the sake of arguing.

Practically every poster has advised the OP to find out more about the situation, which she is doing/has done and also to talk to the HT before proceeding further. I am still of the opinion that the coach is not competent and I totally disagree with punishing children several times over for one offence that sends out a very damaging message.

In fairness, most of the teachers posting have also said it sounds out-of-line and that the OP should enquire further, which she's clearly doing.

However, some of the posts suggesting that there may be a mismatch between what the kids are saying and what actually transpired, have been leapt upon and taken out of context and people accused of supporting child abuse. I'd go so far as to say, one or two have got extreme, and overly emotional and probably a bit hysterical.

Fortunately, the OP sounds rational and sensible and will forge her own path through this.

Yanbu op. The coach sounds rubbish...no coach I know would punish kids by making them all sit in the cold. It's such a petty/PA thing to do. Make them do laps, make them do press ups and circuits, yes - make them sit and freeze, no.

The thread is far too long but the clubs head sounds nuts too - I hope you fight the £10 charge all the way the cheeky so and so. Totally sounds like she's panicking IMO and that the best form of defence is attack.

We really need a button on here that cuts out every post bar the Op’s

OP: I think you are doing the right thing to meet with the HT to clarify things. My own view is that they have taken this too far- the coach was in the wrong re sitting for long period in the cold. I think issuing a punishment, then escalating matter and issuing further punishments at a later date is odd. Especially when this escalation comes after a parent raises concerns. This raises questions for me regarding the punishments.

In addition, I think refusing to take the children on a residential trip for one session where there was some laughing, giggling and some cheek from a child would be taking things too far. If this behaviour was continual, then perhaps it would be a different matter. But I would have expected the parents to have been contacted re repeated bad behaviour at training. If not, I'd want to know why I hadn't been made aware there was an issue until it got to the point of considering banning my DC from trips and so on.

maisypops I think some of what penggwyn has said is reasonable but I think some of her comments to other posters have been quite unpleasant and dismissive (especially her response winchester, which was rude and unkind). She is quite defensive and does seem adamant that the school must automatically be in the right. I can see why some posters have been rubbed up the wrong way by her.

Personally, I think most teachers do their best and want to support children. But they are human and do get it wrong sometimes. It's possible that these is one of those occasions. Children do lie about and try to minimise bad behaviour. But children don't always lie and on the whole should be given a fair hearing too.

Maisy. Pengggwyn

As you are teachers, I’d just like to give my negative experiences (there are far more positive ones than negative thank goodness) following the comment about taking things at face value. I think it would be nice if staff were always honest, unfortunately I don’t think they always are.

My dd does a before school club once a week. On the last day of the summer term, I saw they were outside and had a look. What I saw made me decide to observe and I did so for about 10 mins. For the most part the coach was lying on a bench ignoring the children and on his phone. This kids were bored, mucking around, trying to get his attention. I asked dd that evening if this was normal and she said no. So in the autumn, I made a point of just checking. And it was a one off on this occasion.

The more worrying thing for me was the behaviour of a TA at dds School. My dd has a medical condition (reflex anoxic seizure) whereupon her heart stops beating, restarts automatically but she has no use of her muscles for at least 10 mins after. I thought dd had grown out of the condition. It innacurately stated on the dedicated website children do grow out of it and I therefore hadn’t alerted School. However she had another seizure over 4 years later and has since started having them again from time to time. Despite having a diagnosis, the school wanted a rediagnosis and refused to put a care plan in place until then.

I wanted dd at the very least to be watched at swimming before the care plan was in place as it would not be possible to see she’d had a seizure until after she’d started breathing again, after which time she would be unable to move, inhaling water, coughing it out and repeating the process. The school dragged its heels and I went myself to watch but felt awkward just observing not helping in the changing rooms as well, which isn’t easy as I’m chronically ill. My health was deteriorating and after a couple of months, felt it it wasn’t possible anymore for me to even safely watch dd.

Finally the 1-2-1 TA for an autistic child was asked to also observe my dd. I wanted to be sure I was happy with the set up and that she understood her role. So a couple of weeks in, I went to just check all was ok. The TA spent the whole session chatting to the mum of the autistic boy. The conversation was very animated, laughing, gesticulating and at least half of the time the TA had her back to the pool. At one time, she didn’t glance at the pool for almost 5 minutes. The mother otoh was watching her kid like a hawk.

I wrote to the head in a non confrontational way, initially treating it as a training issue.. The TA disputed my account and the head totally backed the TA and stated she was giving satisfactory care. There were several email conversations and I was in tears every swim day. I stopped sending dd in with her kit and was being told dd had to participate. After a bunch of fruitless emails I realised I could get dd signed off with a doctors note, which I did and then got a permanent one from the cardiologist.

The school did finally put the care plan in place and shortly after dd had a seizure at school. The teacher had to call an ambulance as dd fell directly backwards with a terrrible bang as she did the other times from standing. This is not like a faint at all where the body generally collapses first. Effectively for a few seconds she’s dead.

Now I had nothing against the TA. She is a lovely lady and great TA in the classroom, the kids love her etc. But the school completely closed ranks on me and I had to protect my child. This isn’t how it should be. I think it’s so sad that in this day and age schools are too preoccupied with covering their own arses making sure they do everything that’s being loaded onto them ie a ton of protocols, form filling and paperwork that they’re missing very real safeguarding issues.

@Mummyoflittledragon that is so awful what happened to your dd re swimming. It's a shame you did not film the TA, facing the wrong way, on your phone!

Glad all was OK. Hope she will grow out of it.

@GlassesOn I've not read all the posts but I hope this will all get resolved and sorted.

Thanks Italian. It was very stressful. I have now had a lot more info emailed to me from STARS and apparently children don’t officially ever grow out of it - contradicting the website. It often just reduces over time. Dd is actually really lucky as some children have them all the time and have to take medication. I know a woman, who is a nurse and says she started getting them in adulthood strangely, it’s usually associated with childhood.

I did have my phone with me. But the school wouldn’t have been interested in a film. They would have only been interested in safeguarding scantily clad children even if said children weren’t in the frame.

Yes, good point. Swimming pools often say no photography.

I don’t personally think it’s fair that the school can withdraw something that the parents have paid for as a punishment. I don’t see how this can be ethical or legal. Fair enough detention or lines as warranted but people work hark to pay for these things and the school should have no right to just take that away. So, I would also be furious in the OP’s situation. The Head doesn’t sound great though, so I suspect you’ll have a fight on your hands but really go for it. Don’t let them get away with this.

However, some of the posts suggesting that there may be a mismatch between what the kids are saying and what actually transpired, have been leapt upon and taken out of context and people accused of supporting child abuse. I'd go so far as to say, one or two have got extreme, and overly emotional and probably a bit hysterical.
That's what i was meaning. Is it any wonder another poster got fed up and defensive qhen instead of just disagreeing there was a pile on to them by multiple posters being awful? (As i say, i've had similar experienves and you do eventuallu get to the point of thinking 'i offered another view, you lot have just piled on bevauee you love fuming but seriously just fuck off and stop being ridiculous' - which then gets jumped on again by the very posters targeting teachers on threads as proof someone isn't a teacher or proof that teacbers are awful. It's sadly quite common on school threads: picl q teacher on a thread who you don't agree with, pile on and then if they get snappy act all oooh no need ti be rude. See i said teachers get like this.

Mummyoflittledragon
That's awful.
As I have said throughout, i also think the coach acted poorly and I also think threatening to remove a trip after one issue (other than a very serious one) is out of order. The OP was right to raise concerns, absolutely.

My issue as the thread progressed was people going from 'there are clear issues and oeprational concerns' to a few people going 'call ofsted' and accusinh posters of being complicit in behaviour which allows abusers fo get away with it. That is ridiculous and uncalled for.

I hope the meeting goes well today OP and you can get the answers you need.

maisypops I read your post that people are being unfair to peng. As I have had an exchange with them I wanted to check if I had been unfair and have gone right back through the thread. And having just done that I completely agree with Cassandra post at 20.53 yesterday.

peng has been relentlessly combative on this thread, arguing over the most ludicrous details such as the definition of how cold it has to be to be colloquially described as freezing, it is obvious that peng cannot accept anything other than peng's way and peng's view. Comments to her have been no more vile than ones she has made to others, she has been dismissive to the point of sneering at times.

It's the same on pretty much every thread this person is on and has been under all their name changes. I believe that Peng is a teacher sadly as I have come across a similar few but thankfully they're in the minority. I actually think Peng does a lot of good on these threads because it helps posters to realise quite how awful and rigid a few teachers can be.

Peng is our very own MN Miss Trunchbull, I always just scroll past her posts (and the pages of posts about her posts).

Thanks for bringing it all up again maisy, just as everything had died down.