School want a letter of apology

[GlassesOn]

My year six son got picked for his schools football team, the team train one day a week and sometimes have matches on those days too. (We all pay £30 per term).

The football coach is quite young, a bit impatient, never speaks to the parents, even after a match, quite dismissive when the boys try to talk to him and I’ve seen him mostly on his phone during training pausing to look up to comment how rubbish they’re are playing is one example.

There have been a few incidents that I haven’t been completely happy with and I told my son I didn’t want him to go back to the team after Christmas but he said he wanted to stay on the team because he had friends in the team etc

First day of January training my husband turns up to pick our son up at the Astro turf pitch (in the school) but no one was there... my husband was confused and went round the school to find them, as no notice had been given to us that training would be held in another place.

After 5 minutes, he found our son in the after school ‘kids club’ because training had finished early (for no reason we’ve heard yet,) he was placed in there as he wasn’t allowed to hang around on his own to wait for his dad, we were told we were being charged £10 for this.

My husband explained to the kids club manager about the training finishing early and if the training had finished at the advertised time on their website then our son wouldn’t have been put into kids club, she agreed to leave off the charge.

Last week my eldest picked her brother up and was told no training had taken place at all, as during the warm up some of the boys were laughing and joking and as punishment they had all been placed on benches in the playground and sat there for over an hour.

My daughter said my son was freezing cold and I phoned the kids club to clarify what had gone on as I was still at work.

I was advised to email a complaint as she wasn’t in charge of the after school clubs, just the kids club which I did.

I received a phone call the next afternoon while at work and got a barrage of attitude by the after school clubs manager, she told me she had investigated the incident throughly that the coach said the kids were acting like animals and put them on the bench until they were ready, I told her I would accept what you’re saying until I’ve spoken to my son again when I got home and if this was the case why didn’t he make them all run around or do some sort of physical exercise as their ‘punishment’? That’s what his old coach used to do if one of them played up, (run around the pitch 3 times etc as that soon made them calm down.“)

It was near freezing that evening and if I stuck my son in the garden for an hour and a half to sit on a bench as punishment I’m sure social services would be called by the school.

I then asked about the previous incident of the coach just packing up whenever he feel like it and she said reconsidering it now she would be charging us £10 for that, as my son wasn’t signed out until 4.50pm even though it took 5 mins for my husband to find where our son was as no note had been left to say training had finished early or moved to another area, but she didn’t want to discuss that.

The head teacher also pulled all the children into her office and told them that they are lying about the incident and it hadn’t been just giggling and that the coach said that they were really naughty.

They have been instructed to write a apology letter to the coach, they also miss their playtime on Monday and are barred from playing on the Astro turf pitch for the rest of term.

So even though all of them say it was just a bit of giggling they are being punished for weeks on end and that’s (after the original punishment of sitting in the cold) & missing their training. Oh and they’ve also being threatened by the head teacher that their year 6 PGL place may be taken away from them (we’ve paid nearly £400 for the trip).

It’s basically the boys word against the coach and the head teacher has decided that the kids are lying.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the two incidents? I’ve told my son he isn’t going back to training but this time he is also okay with it.

Or should I just let it drop? WWYD?

Thank you. . The class teacher was fab and backed me. It was the head. Great head in some respects. He also collared me in the corridor after dd had had the seizure and said they’d got “most things right”. I agree dds class teacher did. Him not so much so. I just stood there and looked at him unable to speak. It was a surreal experience.

That's just awful mummy even reading it was hard so goodness what living it was like.

My child has autism, he was moved to a new school that was supposedly more suitable for his needs - with a specialist autism unit. Within two weeks he had come home with abrasions and bruises all over his face and body - from restraint. Towards the end of his time there he regressed and became almost entirely non verbal, was self harming, trying to throw himself out of a moving car on the way. Finally he managed to tell me that a member of staff and restrained him by holding him with her hand on the back of his head on a desk and whenever he tried to lift it she banged it back down again, he certainly had marks all over his face that supported this. I removed him immediately and my other child also who had started in Reception. I made a formal complaint. The teacher in question denied it completely another member of staff in the room said she had seen nothing. I believe my son. He is autistic and cannot lie, he's just not able to do it. The complaint was dropped due to my son not being "reliable". At almost the same time I sent an application to the LA with supporting statement explaining non emotively what had happened to my son and why I was therefore applying for a new school place for my youngest, my oldest would now be home educated. The following week I was offered a place for her at one of the two "Outstanding" schools in the borough. I'm not ashamed to say I took it and it's been a very positive place for her. But I have always suspected that I was given that Impossible To Get Into School so I would STFU and not keep making waves about the new flagship autism unit where my son was hurt.

There's some shit bag teachers out there, my daughter had another one last year. But that's only two, in almost a decade of my children attending primary school we have only ever come across two which I think are good odds. But they do exist and should be discussed and the usual suspects on this thread who claim children lie, parents hysterically exaggerate and all sanctions are deserved and who consistently offer whataboutery in response to concerns just confirm this and that they're probably THAT kind of teacher too.

Mummy

I am aghast that you didn’t tell the school your child has had such a serious condition. Even if it hadn’t happened for some time.

Any why were you getting your information off a website? Rather than the specialist you had presumay been seeing?

God it's been difficult to read some of the experiences suffered by some of the posters children My son has no way suffered in any way similar but as a parent who is 'making waves' due to my child's word against an adult, its been an eye opener to know that cover ups in school can and do happen. They shouldn't but they do.

I've got my meeting at 1.30pm. Thank you for your good wishes.

I have a list of questions I thought I would ask and I was hoping you lovely people could tell me if I'm being right or unreasonable in asking them..

1. what time was my son signed into Kids Club on the 11th of January, as this will show what time coaching finished. (Supposed to be 4.45pm)

2. if the behaviour was as bad as the school are saying last Thursday, why wasn't training cut short and parents called or informed?

3. Why are the children being punished over and over again for the same offense?

4. does the punishment(s) follow the school procedure on behaviour for an after school club?

5. Can I please be provided with a full account of my sons behaviour.
   As acting like an animal is a bit too generic for my liking.

6. if the children were naughty/cheeky (still yet to have clarity on what they did exactly) and as their punishment lost their training time and spent over an hour on the bench in the cold, why has this snowballed into a detention, no pitch time for the rest of term (is that until April?) and threatened withdrawal from the PGL trip.
   I won't bring up the apology letter as that's been done now.

Anything else you would add to ask if you were me?

Mummy, Game You have taken my breath away with your posts. Thank you both for having the courage to share your stories.

Sound perfect questions to me. You mentioned, I think, that they have CCTV covering the training area, is this part of their evidence as to the behaviour? If it is, are you allowed to view it? If they haven't viewed it is their only evidence what the coach reported? The CCTV footage, if available, should also confirm how long they spent sitting on the bench.

Oh and good luck, hope it goes well.

Yes definitely will bring up the cctv, thank you.
I'll ask them if they've seen (I doubt they will let me see it) and if what they saw can be described to me. Surely that proves that even if they continued to giggle, that they were sitting outside for a long period (not like the school have actually denied this though).

I'd also be prepared to ask why you haven't been informed prior to this if they claim the behaviour has been persistent.

Good luck.

Good luck OP, and don't let them rush you.

Their response to you asking about the CCTV will be illuminating I think, I have a feeling they will say the footage has been wiped/taped over.

Good luck. I hope it goes well

I will add if there has been bad behaviour noted before and why wasn't we informed if so.

Thank you

Good luck for your meeting later, GlassesOn

One other thing I would add is to ask about the safeguarding issues - the coach is responsible for the children until 4.45 so why did he leave early in the first session and what is their policy for sessions ending early (phone parents to collect early/make parents aware and a school employee supervise them until the normal collection time/put them in the private ASC and the school covers or arranges for the waiving of any fees)? Also, what would be their normal process for Lone Working? Most schools that have LW adults working with children will have standard procedures in place to cover emergencies including risk assessments, H&S reports, what to do if they have to leave early, what would happen in the case the coach or a child injured themselves and required medical attention, reporting any issues/concerns etc.

Melj I've screen shot your advice to add to my questions. I hope I get to ask everything
Thank you.

Good questions on the whole.

The only thing is that 3 and 6 are really the same question. I would probably ask 1 and 2 first, then 5, then 4, then 6/3 together. "Policy" rather than "procedure" will be their key word. The school behaviour policy should be available to download from their website - they are obligated to have it there. Have a copy of the behaviour policy in your hand and ask them to show you where they state how the behaviour policy applies to after-school clubs.

Ask them, if they are still threatening to ban the children involved from the PGL trip, if they will put this threat in writing so you can show it to the Governors if/when you escalate your concerns to them. I bet they won't want to put it in writing as it will sound lame (e.g. "children misbehaved with football coach one time so we're prepared to ban them from residential").

Use phrases like "obviously I hope it won't be necessary for me to escalate my concerns to the Governors or the local authority".

Definitely ask about the CCTV. Definitely ask why, if there was a pattern of bad behaviour at football coaching, why parents were not told about this earlier so that you could speak to your children about it.

Good point to add on there Glasses, I'd forgotten about that. Also, what melj just suggested.

I wish one of you were coming with me I'm going to rewrite my order of questions now and change the wording. I can't thank you enough. Will update as soon as I get out. Hope this is the end of it but I'll escalate it if I have to.

Yes, what Gardener said, but I wouldn't use the word 'threat'.

Don't worry, just write everything out that you want to ask and take your notes in with you and you'll be fine

Also feel free to take notes during the meeting and don't feel like you have to rush through everything - go at your own pace and if you don't feel like they have answered the question then feel free to ask them to clarify their answer and/or restate the question until they do answer it.

Hopefully by the end of the meeting you will have got everything resolved, but if not then dont be afraid to tell them you arent satisfied with their response and you will be escalating the issue further.

Good luck

You'll be fine OP, be calm, objective and keep the discussion on facts, don't be de-railed. Having your questions written down is great it keeps you on track, make notes of the answers as they are given and if a question hasn't been fully answered, ask it again.

Exude confidence and professionalism.

Thanks. .

MrsGame
It is shocking that the school behaved so terribly. I’m so sorry and in a specialist unit. I’m so glad things worked out well. Incredulous!

Canyouguess
Dd was diagnosed in a&E after her second seizure. She was about 18 months old and never had one again until she was 7 and going into yr3. At a&E they told me to read up and follow the guidelines on the website so I did. At the time the website info stated children often grow out of it by school age. I was given no follow up or other information. I was told to trust the information so I did and hindsight is such a glorious thing.

By the time dd reaches 3, I had severe ME, I really wasn’t thinking about seizures when she started school. I was struggling with the basics like getting her to and from school and making her tea.

I'll have one of these on your behalf op, you can have yours later Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it sorted.

Yes, maybe "threat" isn't the best word to use. Definitely agree with taking notes during the conversation and not allowing yourself to be rushed. They will be keen to brush you off quickly and get you out. The HT will pick their words a lot more carefully if they see that you are writing down what they have said. Read back what they said if you want to, e.g. "So, according to my notes you have said that..." See if they then start backtracking!

Have you managed to find out from the after school club what time the training finished on the day it finished early? I.e. were they brought there at 4.00, 4.20, 4.40? Definitely mention the word "safeguarding". E.g. "As part of your safeguarding policy, I would expect that, if football training had to end early for some reason, parents would be contacted and given the option to collect children early. As you did not contact parents with this information, you cannot charge parents for the use of after school club facilities if they were not given the option to avoid after school club by collecting early." It is a breach of safeguarding that your husband turned up to collect at 4.45 and there was no way for him to know where your son was. (Just a thought, are you 100% sure that your husband did turn up on time and he is not making excuses to you because he knows he was a bit late that day?? Was 4.45 the advertised end time, or was it 4.30 and he didn't bother turning up earlier because usually he finds they are still chatting away and getting changed at 4.45? 4.30 is a more common time for clubs to finish usually.)

I used to be a Year 6 teacher and in my experience most genuinely difficult Y6 boys would never sit on a bench for an hour. They just wouldn't. It's such a long time. They must be basically good kids to have gone along with it, with only a bit of muttering and backchat.

I also used to lead Year 6 residential trips, and in my experience only the most serious pattern of behaviour incidents would ever get a child banned from the Year 6 residential. I'd be wanting to know why, if my child was in a group of children who behaved badly enough to possibly deserve banning from the residential, I hadn't been informed of the school's concerns earlier so I could work with them to help him with his behaviour.

Good luck in your meeting OP. Don't let them fob you off. Hope it goes well.

I hope your meeting went oki and you got the answers you needed OP