School want a letter of apology

[GlassesOn]

My year six son got picked for his schools football team, the team train one day a week and sometimes have matches on those days too. (We all pay £30 per term).

The football coach is quite young, a bit impatient, never speaks to the parents, even after a match, quite dismissive when the boys try to talk to him and I’ve seen him mostly on his phone during training pausing to look up to comment how rubbish they’re are playing is one example.

There have been a few incidents that I haven’t been completely happy with and I told my son I didn’t want him to go back to the team after Christmas but he said he wanted to stay on the team because he had friends in the team etc

First day of January training my husband turns up to pick our son up at the Astro turf pitch (in the school) but no one was there... my husband was confused and went round the school to find them, as no notice had been given to us that training would be held in another place.

After 5 minutes, he found our son in the after school ‘kids club’ because training had finished early (for no reason we’ve heard yet,) he was placed in there as he wasn’t allowed to hang around on his own to wait for his dad, we were told we were being charged £10 for this.

My husband explained to the kids club manager about the training finishing early and if the training had finished at the advertised time on their website then our son wouldn’t have been put into kids club, she agreed to leave off the charge.

Last week my eldest picked her brother up and was told no training had taken place at all, as during the warm up some of the boys were laughing and joking and as punishment they had all been placed on benches in the playground and sat there for over an hour.

My daughter said my son was freezing cold and I phoned the kids club to clarify what had gone on as I was still at work.

I was advised to email a complaint as she wasn’t in charge of the after school clubs, just the kids club which I did.

I received a phone call the next afternoon while at work and got a barrage of attitude by the after school clubs manager, she told me she had investigated the incident throughly that the coach said the kids were acting like animals and put them on the bench until they were ready, I told her I would accept what you’re saying until I’ve spoken to my son again when I got home and if this was the case why didn’t he make them all run around or do some sort of physical exercise as their ‘punishment’? That’s what his old coach used to do if one of them played up, (run around the pitch 3 times etc as that soon made them calm down.“)

It was near freezing that evening and if I stuck my son in the garden for an hour and a half to sit on a bench as punishment I’m sure social services would be called by the school.

I then asked about the previous incident of the coach just packing up whenever he feel like it and she said reconsidering it now she would be charging us £10 for that, as my son wasn’t signed out until 4.50pm even though it took 5 mins for my husband to find where our son was as no note had been left to say training had finished early or moved to another area, but she didn’t want to discuss that.

The head teacher also pulled all the children into her office and told them that they are lying about the incident and it hadn’t been just giggling and that the coach said that they were really naughty.

They have been instructed to write a apology letter to the coach, they also miss their playtime on Monday and are barred from playing on the Astro turf pitch for the rest of term.

So even though all of them say it was just a bit of giggling they are being punished for weeks on end and that’s (after the original punishment of sitting in the cold) & missing their training. Oh and they’ve also being threatened by the head teacher that their year 6 PGL place may be taken away from them (we’ve paid nearly £400 for the trip).

It’s basically the boys word against the coach and the head teacher has decided that the kids are lying.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for clarity regarding the two incidents? I’ve told my son he isn’t going back to training but this time he is also okay with it.

Or should I just let it drop? WWYD?

I have missed a few pages so apologies if I've missed these nuggets. Are the coaches employed by the school or do they come in from external providers? Either way there are alarm bells ringing that on at least one occasion your child had been left with someone who isn't authorised to care for them. Who was there supervising whilst they were sitting in the cold? Why did no other member of staff challenge that there were numerous children sitting on a bench in the cold? Wasn't it dark too? 3. I would also advocate involving the board of governors and Ofsted. 4. There are a number of serious failures here and the school have a duty of care and it would appear systemic in that nobody has recognised these risks. Best of luck to you. Please follow you're gut instinct pin this. Something about this situation stinks.

I haven't read all the thread however I hope I can add something relevant. I've been a primary school teacher for over 15 years and I have seen plenty of peripatetic PE teachers, both in school time and in after school clubs. It is no exaggeration to say that the quality ranges from wonderful to dreadful.

Also, from my skimming of the thread I get the impression that the OP has not mentioned the following in her complaints:

The football coach is quite young, a bit impatient, never speaks to the parents, even after a match, quite dismissive when the boys try to talk to him and I’ve seen him mostly on his phone during training pausing to look up to comment how rubbish they’re are playing is one example.

The school definitely needs to know about this.

(Well they probably already know he's quite young.)

I would pursue the safeguarding issues with the headtacher. First, the school should have a proper policy in place for safeguarding children at the end of after school activities - even if parents are late, which does not appear to have been the case here. Second, how is the school ensuring that children are kept safe if the coach leaves them sitting outdoors in freezing weather for extended periods. I would ask questions about what safeguarding training the coach has done, and whether the coach has been fully briefed on the school's own policies. On the basis of information in this thread the coach does not sound a suitable person to be involved in activities with children. The issue of punishment and whether the children have been entirely truthful or not is secondary to keeping them safe. Since the coach has presumably been appointed by the after school clubs manager it is that manager who should be held accountable, but that is up to the headteacher as the person with overall responsibility. In the OP's position I would make a formal safeguarding complaint first to the headteacher, then governors and possibly even to Ofsted (who do take safeguarding complaints seriously) if the headteacher does not respond in a way acceptable to the OP.

Get to gather with the other parents and make your complaint- power of a group outweighs the one!

GlassesOn
That sounds like a reasonable response so far from them. The head is engaging and you're taking steps towards getting answers.

The coach clearly handled a situation badly. There is little doubt about that. You are doing the rught thing.

To posters saying people assume kids are lying. It's not saying kids are liars or anything malicious (certainly not from my position), just that what's 'only having a laugh' and 'being rude and disruptuve' caj be subjective and even good kids can put a truthful, yet minimised spin on their actions / the actions of a teacher.
E.g. Last week a student claimed i kept them in over half of lunch so they didn't get any food. The reality was they were kept back 3 mins and then they chose to dawdle etc.
E.g. a couple of students talk endlessly about how 'you always shout at us'. I don't. I have a firm tone which i use when they are talking over me or their peers. I remind them of thr time I actually shouted (duty situation where that volume was required) and joked 'so remind me what i do that'. They laughed and said 'fair point'. I don't shout at them all thr time at all. Have never done. Just that's their slightly exaggerated retelling.
E.g. I sent a student out for talking in an assessment. They were 'just asking a question'. Thankfully thr student accepted that exam conditions keans just that but with another student I could have quite easily had a complaint for 'you sent my chikd out because thry were stuck'

None of those students were bad students. They're just kids.

It's not assuming all kids are liars to be aware of the possibility kids minimise their involvement.

Get to gather with the other parents and make your complaint- power of a group outweighs the one!
Nope. That is nasty mob mentality and to be honest less likely ti get a positive resolution.

Each parent should raise concerns about thr situation regarding THEIR child, discuss the actions if THEIR child and THEIR child's experience of the sessions in question.

None of this 'we have all been talking and fuming and coming up with a strategy to perfect a witch hunt against a member of staff. Lets make sure we all say it was over an hour in freezing conditions'.

Remember schools will do anything to cover their backs, complain like mad and get other parents to join in. The coach sounds lazy and he may want to save face, don’t let him get away with it.

Complain to the governors.

Complain to the lea for your area,

Ask for the £400 to be returned so that you can take your son off a team which is being managed by someone who clearly cannot cope with schoolboys, and if they refuse, tell them you’ll take legal action.

I would be reporting this as a safeguarding issue. Totally unacceptable

Of course. Perhaps it was 'close to freezing'. But perhaps it wasn't. We don't know. Yet people are speaking as if 'freezing' is a fact.

I think they've picked it up from the OP:

My daughter said my son was freezing cold
and
It was near freezing that evening

So I think it's fair to say the temperature wasn't exactly tropical.

OP I think you're handling this very calmly and well

I think it's worth remembering that anyone can say they're anyone and anything on here.

I used to teach and have real concerns about these staff.
The football coach should not be on his phone, and that's just for starters. If he has to finish a session early he either waits until parents have turned up or arrange cover.
If the boys have been really naughty he needs to specify what happened and who was involved - if your son was troublesome, it would be coming from lots of staff, not just one. It's very rare for a pupil to be well behaved and kick out at just one teacher. It tends to happen in most lessons over a long period. If he has done something wrong and you are 100 per cent sure of it, a letter of an apology would help, but it can't be demanded.
The sitting out in the cold is abuse - it might sound like a strong word to use, but it's abuse plain and simple. Being forced to sit out in freezing cold weather is physically damaging and also mentally abusive - it is humiliating.
Schools should be encouraging after school activities - they enrich the lives of everyone involved. Some schools would value parents who turn up on time and show concern.
As for the other trip, there needs to be a real proof serious wrongdoing and a protocol of how this privilege is removed. You can't withdraw it in this way.
I don't know this school but from what I know a good Head is calm, fair and can tell you exactly what has happened and what the next stages are. This one sounds like an idiot, trying to cover up for serious mistakes and hoping that by threatening to take away the other holiday, you will all give in and get on with it.
Nowhere, at any point in teacher training, are you told it is OK to sit young children out in cold conditions as a punishment. I am not totally sure, but I think the coach possibly should have had another member of staff with him/her or nearby.
Speak to other parents, and then the Governors. They take this seriously. Even if every single child had been awful, the punishment was horrific.
The school don't seem to be to clear on any facts. I would work from that and maybe suggest that your son and his friends find another activity to do out of school.
The coach who did this on duty shouldn't be in the job. Keep strong and don't give up. You sound like a fantastic mum and if schools had more like you they would feel lucky!!!

Tell the head to stick her words where the sun doesn’t shine? Although it sounds like she thinks it does 😒

1. the £10 think you don’t owe it anyone should be handing that over it’s the coach as he sod off early
2. is complain constantly. This head sounds like my daughters SHIT! They need to invest in a new coach

I’d have said try get evidence that this fool is crap. I’d get all the others parents to sign a form you’ve made up on word along the lines of I hereby give permission for xxx to film or for my child to be in footage I’d pictures. Then have all parents sign and date.

Honestly I’d just complain everyday I’ve done it several times. It makes me happy 😂😂😂💜

SueEllenfan123 talks a lot of sense.

SueEllenFan123
I also have an issue with schools relying on outside coaches left, right and centre.
The coach has handled things badly. Of that i have no doubt.

I would challenge the idea of it bring rare for studentsto be fine for most staff and then be awful for one teacher. I see it a lot as a form tutor at secondary. Some of my students have certain lessons where they get negative reports and when i talk to them it's becausethey don't like the teacher or the subject or both. They absolutely pick and choose when to focus. Like I say, these are lovely students so we aren't talking full on trash the lesson disruption but more messing on, more chatting than they would with other teachers

which is the only basis on which I can make judgements about probability I don't know, there are lots of things I haven't experienced personally but I know they happen.

I was commenting on personal experience being the only basis you can make judgements about probability. I don't think it is. I've never been bitten by a dog but I wouldn't say I can only judge on that basis.

I actually think that is quite dangerous if you manage teachers, if a child makes an allegation I don't think it is good enough to say you've no personal experience of teachers lying so you judge it to not be probable. You have said that without evidence to the contrary you would believe the teacher, I think that is dangerous.

Anyway if the temperature that day was 4 degrees I think that is close to freezing so personally I would want it investigated even if the school have never heard of it before.

Two of my kids are teachers and I do normally think teachers get a bad deal but if a group of children are saying something I think teachers need to listen.

Good luck OP.

Pengggwn don't worry I won't be waiting for a reply. I know you find it annoying when your own words are quoted at you but you said, So I don't assume children are lying, but if a story isn't adding up, I will seriously consider both the possibility that someone is lying, and then I will look at probabilities based on my own experience. So you've never known a teacher to lie so as far as you are concerned the child is lying, even if there is not evidence of that, even if a group of children are telling you that.