To ask about the advantages of private school?

[longestlurkerever]

This is probably going to come across badly, but I'm interested in hearing people's opinions. I went to a middle of the road state school and then Oxford. I came away with a first class law degree and a training contract at a magic circle law firm. Although I didn't especially enjoy secondary school, I suppose I've always thought that it did the trick and my dds wouldn't lose anything if they had the same education as me. Recently though I've been working through some stuff with the help of a leadership course at work and realise that, even once you bag the job, there are an awful lot of unwritten rules that I am not sure I am fully understand - how to network effectively, how to have authority in senior meetings and just generally how to go through life feeling assured and confident and have been wondering if this is what private schooling is really all about? I still am not sure I'd choose private school for my dds even if it is, and would have to make some tough decisions to afford it anyway, but I am interested in what the benefits are so I can weigh them up.

We have done excellent private and good state. I preferred the state personally. Lovely down to earth kids who worked hard. Lots of entitled brattish behaviour at the private.

Fwiw dd is in year 10 at single sex private and she is one of three in her peer group who don't smoke. Her friend from the state school tells me that smoking is very unusual in her year 10.

My next burning question is that there must be other ways to build those soft skills - what are they? My dds are little still but I do encourage them to talk to adults- little things like if they want a straw for their drink they have to go up and ask for it themselves, and I don't take shyness as an excuse for failing to say proper thank yous or sorrys etc. As they get older I suppose it's sustained dinner table conversation, debating, mooting, drama clubs that sort of thing? As for me, I think it's fake it till you make it time.

My parents are not rich and we are a very normal family, but they inherited some money and sent me to a private school from 11-18, and I am so thankful they did, as the local state school was shocking. I am so grateful for the wonderful education I received - the teaching was superb. However, the real advantage was the fact that everyone was a certain ability (we has an entrance exam) and wanted to learn, so no-one was made fun of for working hard and studying. It was a very encouraging environment and the staff knew each child inside out and how to get the very best out of each individual. The opportunities in terms of school exchange and trips were fantastic, and I feel I gained a real sense of purpose and confidence (not arrogance) to believe in myself and not undervalue my abilities going forward. It was sometimes hard being one of the ones not living in a huge house or going on exotic holidays every half term, but I made some great friends and that didn't really matter at the end of the day.

We have one DS (age 6) and he goes to a private school. We save and work hard to be able to afford to send him, and again don't have a big house or go on endless holidays, but we are absolutely thrilled with the school. He's working at a very advanced level to the average for Year One and is thriving in that environment with a small class size and teachers who know him inside out. The opportunities for learning they offer are incredible and very inventive and he absolutely loves school. It was the best decision my DH and I made.

DH went to state school and did extremely well academically because he was bright and capable, but wasn't pushed by his school and didn't enjoy it. He is utterly blown away by the all-round education that DS receives.

Has any mentioned that because you are paying directly, concerns are always taken seriously and the teachers are, well, just nicer to you!

But don't forget....yes, your concerns are "taken seriously". But so are those of every other parent. At my kids' first prep school this was verging on the comedic. They would say what they thought you wanted to hear. And then they'd tell the next set of parents what they thought they wanted to hear.....even if that was something completely different.

Teachers are nicer to you? To your face, maybe. And this also means that sometimes you don't hear the things which need improvement, because that's not very "nice". But it's not the way in which one judges a professional.

Beware the smoke and mirrors of private schools. I say that as someone whose kids go to one. There are good ones and there are bad ones. Like there are good and bad state schools.

Yes definitely smoke and mirrors!

Soft skills? You mean manners? Teach those yourself! Dd at private school is extremely clever and has crap soft skills. Which is why she's there and not at the good local state! Dd1 in 6th form at local state is amazing with people, confident, not brash, thoughtful and kind. It's just the way she is.

I went to a state school, but most of my uni friends are from private schools. The thing that has always struck me about our school experiences is that at my school there wasn't really any push to make the children successful, to continue education, an idea of what they could achieve. That might just have been my school though. But from the pupils especially the main desire was to be 'hard' rather than smart - no one cared about academic success. This seemed entirely opposite to my uni friends. There certainly seems to be more confidence amongst the privately educated too. I've always thought that I would want to put my 2 into private secondary schools as a result.

I always remember being at uni and watching a high school kids show where the 'naughty/rebellious' teen was arguing with a teacher. One of my friends said 'this is so unrealistic, that wouldn't happen' and I said 'yeah, as if he wouldn't be swearing! He would probably try and hit him or throw something at him'. Everyone looked at me in utter disbelief and someone said 'no, you would never speak to a teacher like that!' At that point I realised just how different my schooling had been

My eyes were opened when I went to university and realised a high proportion of people had been to private secondary school, or state grammar schools.

A lot of my colleagues were privately educated and I can usually spot the ones, like me, who weren’t. The privately educated ones are generally much more confident. I wouldn’t say arrogant in most cases.

I think the main advantage of private education is resources: more money is spent per DC on teachers and support staff.

You get that boundless confidence from growing up skiing in the winter and long holidays in the summer, having a big house and lots of money. Tennis lessons, horses, private healthcare.

Going to a good private school on a bursary doesn't produce the same effect!

Soft skills? You mean manners? Teach those yourself!

Haha, I certainly try to! I am certainly not rude to people, and I think people would call me friendly as I'll always take the time to introduce myself to new people and bring them into a group, but I do admit to a certain social awkwardness - I struggle to move a conversation past pleasantries and ice breakers unless it's a heart to heart or full on debate. I also find I still go red and stutter when addressing big meetings.

I went to an independent girls day school - when I was there it was generally top of the league tables for exam results (although it's now down out of the top ten nearly 20 years later), so it was a very high achieving, high pressure environment

I absolutely thrived in this environment, because they didn't just drill for exams, but taught me how to think. Because the academic standard was high, and everyone was expected to get top grades (anything lower than a B was a massive outlier), they basically got the exam syllabus out of the way as quickly as possible, to spend more of the lessons on stretching us intellectually. If you were struggling then there was absolutely no hesitation in giving you extra coaching you needed to get you where you needed to be. I remember for A-level history spending time on lines of enquiry and debate that had nothing to do with the syllabus, but which were the best preparation for my Oxford interview and degree than I could possibly have imagined

I genuinely didn't realise that getting into Oxford was as big a deal as it was perceived to be, because there were so so many people who got Oxbridge places. I think bar one or two people, everyone in the year went to RG universities. There was very much an expectation that we would go on to be high achievers and captains of industry etc. The school was founded in the 19th century to specifically give girls a strong education in STEM, so there was no sense of anything that girls could or couldn't do. We were encouraged to be free thinkers - no one cared if you came in with piercings or punky hair or what you wore (no uniform in sixth form), it was your contribution that mattered.

Competitions for 'young analyst' (national chemistry competition), maths Olympiad, model United nations etc were standard. I did public speaking and debating competitions, as well as on the school general knowledge quiz team. So even though I wasn't sporty or musical, there was plenty to do. We also had to do an afternoon of volunteering in the local community in sixth form - again I'm sure this was for UCAS forms, but it was a valuable experience to have that part of the timetable.

The down side to such high expectations was that there was a very high incidence of eating disorders - probably a quarter of the year had some degree of ED at some point, some spent quite long stretches in inpatient units. There were a few cutters (self harmers) as well, I think. I thrived in the atmosphere, although I think Oxford was a bit of a shock when I was no longer sailing through with quite such ease! It did leave me with a very strong sense of competitive spirit, and I can be quite tough on myself if I'm not performing to the standard I expect of myself. I do remember feeling relieved that I had got the 9 A-star GCSEs I'd hoped for (still quite unusual in 1997) but deflated that it wasn't as impressive as the handful of girls who'd got 10 A-stars, because they'd done extra subjects in their lunch hour or out of school

I've no experience of state school to compare, but I adored my school experience and feel it equipped me with so very much more beyond academic grades that I use in my everyday life. But may very well be saying the same if I'd gone to the local state grammar instead!

Actually I have noticed that people with posh accents get treated better by staff in shops. So I guess all those everyday interactions make a difference.
Whereas as someone who grew up very poor, I was well aware that society looked down on poor people.

It may not even be a school thing. It could come down to personality type.

I have come across many self assured, articulate, engaging children in state schools.

I teach students including lots from private schools, and I have noticed that whilst many of the males do exhibit a confidence which is really noticeable, the girls/women do not. They are not better at presenting, holding a room, all this stuff, in fact, they are quite passive, hair-flicky and not confident at all at debating. I know as I have to get them to speak/interact/present and it's a nightmare. So, I don't know why but private school doesn't appear to turn out confident, slightly entitled, women at all. I'm sure this is a patriarchal thing.

I haven't sent my children to private school as I haven't the money, and for the most part, they've done pretty well with state.

I went to Oxbridge without any connections from a crappy comp, and whilst my degree has been very useful to me career-wise, I didn't come away with lots of networking possibilities that were useful to me, my friends were similar to me and had very few! I conclude therefore that this is more of a family/social network advantage- and that is a real advantage many of my students have in terms of arranging internships, first jobs where they might not otherwise survive a brutal recruitment and so on.

Money and connections give that confidence. Why wouldn't they?

Winter That is really interesting, and sad. It is men who are privately educated that I have met at work.

A relative works in pastoral care in a top private girls school and says the incidence of eating disorders and self harm is extremely high.

Rebeccaslicker your comments echo my experience.

I went to state school. Sister went to a very selective private school on a sporting scholarship.

Both equal intelligence and same GCSE results. However all I can say is my sister is a more ‘polished’ version of me. (Nicely spoken, easy confident manners, knows how to carry herself, able to manage emotions and engage brain before speaking. She was taught these things at school). She had work ethic installed in her and was surrounded by a culture that said it was ‘cool to do well’. She successfully runs her own business.

I meanwhile was bullied for studying in a study period or for doing my homework or asking a question in class. I initially became withdrawn before adopting a can’t beat them join up attitude and going off the rails GCSE year and a levels. I went to a particularly rubbish state secondary and the discipline was awful. I sometimes think parents have no idea how badly behaved some pupils are in secondary. Think fighting, throwing chairs, low level disprution 100% of the time. I am now a professional, middle management and there is no one above me who is state educated. I also notice that I am not selected for certain tasks as perhaps I don’t give off the right impression (obviously as an adult I own the responsibility for that. But still would be nice to have the advantage of a smart accent, easy confident manners etc)

Having said that we both earn about the same and have equal happiness levels.

My DH went to a rubbish state school and dropped out before even doing his GCSE’s. He is also someone who is very easily influenced and would have been the ‘naughty one’ throughout his entire school career (his reports reflect that). However, he is clever, bright and motived. He runs his own business (manual labour ) and out earns all our friends with degrees and private education (apart from maybe the consultants). Having said that he struggles with confidence, public speaking, and general ‘how to behave in polite society’. By that I just mean basic table manners at a wedding breakfast. Not a black tie event. (He is lovely and kind and nice, and supportive all far more important than table manners I know). However he is lucky he loves his job. His lack of education means his choices are limited. He was brought up in an affluent area and saw everyday the rewards of working hard. His parents worked very hard to move their family out of the area he was born into. (High rise flat, area of high poverty and crime). He has said to me that he been brought up where he was born everyone around him on benefits he would probably have ended up in a gang 🙁

The point I am making is that DH and I both did okay DESPITE our state school educations. It hindered us the whole way, where as my sisters private school supported her and gave her advantages which she still reaps the benefits from today.

(Please note, this is my experience from my pool of friends and family. I appreciate there massives and masses of amazing state educated people and also some private school families with the issues I mentioned above )

I should add that my school def wasn't posh or swanky rich - a lot of pupils were there on assisted places, and the fees were less than most full time nursery places for a child in a big city. I only actually developed a broad northern accent when I went to secondary school, because there were pupils from all over the Manchester area: so I went in with no accent and left with a noticeable Mancunian accent!

Wow that was long. Sorry it’s an emotive issue for me 😕

I went to private school. There were far too many snobbish individuals who thought they were something. I had a lovely group of friends though. I felt it was "push push push" and we were judged if we didn't get top marks in everything and hauled out in front of the class, if we didn't do well. I completely rebelled and left school and didnt go to Uni ( even though I had decent enough grades, but not Uni standard). I went later in life. I am now in my old school facebook group and there were a few girls that did the same or dropped out of Uni.
Even if I had had the money at the time, I wouldn't have sent my DC's to private school. They were all at state schools and two went to Uni, youngest has just been given a conditional. My oldest runs her own business and middle is an ICU paed nurse.

I'd be impressed with a 5 year old that had the fine motor control to excel at Call of Duty.

6YO DD plays Lego Star Wars and spends 90% of her time accidentally running off a cliff and dying. I blame her prep school.

I have noticed that whilst many of the males do exhibit a confidence which is really noticeable, the girls/women do not. They are not better at presenting, holding a room, all this stuff, in fact, they are quite passive, hair-flicky and not confident at all at debating. I know as I have to get them to speak/interact/present and it's a nightmare. So, I don't know why but private school doesn't appear to turn out confident, slightly entitled, women at all. I'm sure this is a patriarchal thing.

This is very interesting as when I was thinking about this I did think that most of the people I was thinking of who display the characteristics I am thinking of are male, although I do know one or two women like this, though they are also quite posh (as conveyed by accent, turns of phrase, horseriding) and actually I have no idea where they went to school, so again it might just be down to the poshness!

So, I don't know why but private school doesn't appear to turn out confident, slightly entitled, women at all. I'm sure this is a patriarchal thing

Possibly. Or an anecdotal thing? Or a location thing?

The thing is you’re never going to get a true analysis of whether state or private is best, there’s too many variables.

I am absolutely certain that DD’s good private has done more for her than the good state because of her personality type. That doesn’t mean her school is better. It simply means it’s better for her.

I am still very good friends with my school girls, 30 years later (private). We are all very confident people, though I certainly hope not arrogant. DH went to a state. He Is a high earner. He also insisted thst our children went to private schools because of how impressed he had been by my social group's confidence.

6YO DD plays Lego Star Wars and spends 90% of her time accidentally running off a cliff and dying. I blame her prep school

Interesting ploppy. I think my school was a bit like yours, though I dealt with it by keeping my head down. I'm hoping for a better class of state education than that for my DC at any rate.