To ask about the advantages of private school?

[longestlurkerever]

This is probably going to come across badly, but I'm interested in hearing people's opinions. I went to a middle of the road state school and then Oxford. I came away with a first class law degree and a training contract at a magic circle law firm. Although I didn't especially enjoy secondary school, I suppose I've always thought that it did the trick and my dds wouldn't lose anything if they had the same education as me. Recently though I've been working through some stuff with the help of a leadership course at work and realise that, even once you bag the job, there are an awful lot of unwritten rules that I am not sure I am fully understand - how to network effectively, how to have authority in senior meetings and just generally how to go through life feeling assured and confident and have been wondering if this is what private schooling is really all about? I still am not sure I'd choose private school for my dds even if it is, and would have to make some tough decisions to afford it anyway, but I am interested in what the benefits are so I can weigh them up.

Benefits...
-smaller class sizes
-More stretch and challenge
-wider curriculum...
like learning languages earlier...musical instruments etc.
-Teachers are more pleasant and I've seen them put in. intervention more effectively when students have social interaction issues.
-Students are more confident

Of course not all private schools are the same. Some are sub par.

I didn't go to private school myself...neither have my DC...but I see the difference with children who have...including my nieces.

If I could have afforded it .. I'd have sent my DC to a private school.

I've worked in both state and private schools and went to a private school myself 11-18.
There are excellent private schools and some shockingly awful ones. There are excellent state schools and a few not so good ones.

Private schools can get away with being shockingly awful - education-wise - for much longer than a state school ever could.
Private schools do, however, develop the 'soft skills' you are referring to more successfully.
Choose wisely, though OP, chose wisely!

Ihatemarmite - no? why, do I make it sound attractive? I thought the pros and cons pretty much balanced each other out to be honest. Though I put more detail into the pros because that's what the OP asked about.

I went to private school and I can do none, absolutely zero, of this: "how to network effectively, how to have authority in senior meetings and just generally how to go through life feeling assured and confident "
In fact I think it may have made us more anxious and less confident, to have people have such high expectations of us.

Our A level results were stellar, we just sucked at everything after that! :)

I could not agree more with posters who have said

"its the SCHOOL not whether it's private or state"

I have 3 DC.
All went to private prep schools, then
One whole way through weekly boarding.
One to State Comp
next went to fee paying for 2 years disaster and moved to local state school where thriving.
DC who went to State School is at a RG Uni, other one is not...last one more than likely will....
it is to so with individual school and child-no generalisation will ever be right...

I don't agree about children having a private education are more confident, better public speakers etc. The majority I was at school with have issues. Partly due to being raised by an education system. For some living in another country and seeing family once a year some times less. There certainly are some that are much more confident, I'm one and my elocution lessons made me a good public speaker. The school now takes pupils boarding from 5 years

In the private schools I've worked in, many pupils do exude an air of confidence but I've found that this comes from home, from their super-confident, highly successful parents. The less self-assured look up to their more self-assured peers and try to emulate their confidence. Often this confidence turns into an unpleasant arrogance by the time they reach 13/14.

I've taught in both for many years. The main difference being that in Private you can actually teach and the pupils get so much work done (mainly due to small class sizes and far fewer issues around behaviour. In State, you spend far too much time filling in paperwork and dealing with other pointless bureaucracy. I just wanted to teach!

A proper private school is all about networking, manners, being well rounded so knowledge of everything from music and art to history and sports, teaching better ways to think (logic lessons, debating, lessons that include proper analysis/require students to construct both assenting and disssenting views, that kind of thing), teaching you how to do stuff the proper way from speaking to skiing, self confidence of course. generally the whole point is to teach you how to not embarrass yourself. I am definitely not sending my children to private school in hopes of top grades-I really don't care whether they get the grades or go to oxbridge etc. I just don't want them to be idiots, sheep or, poorly mannered.

Hi Eggs,

I could post a really erudite response to your post or just make a childish point.

If you're looking to private education to guarantee that your children are not "idiots, sheep or poorly mannered" then maybe you should look at what private schools are churning out.

Have you seen Boris Johnson?

This thread has thoroughly depressed me.

I hope that my clever state educated children are better at not taking trolls to heart than I am

have you seen Boris Johnson

Couldn't agree with this more. I too have found this thread depressing, if he or other MPs of his ilk are anything to go by I'm glad my kids are state educated.

I personally don't like the over confidence and sense of entitlement some of those who went to private school have. But it does seem to help with your career.

On the confidence thing I can think of (from my acquaintances) private school educated people who are a bit socially awkward and state school educated people who always ‘own’ a room.

My state school educated examples are very very clever though so that probably helps (they are usually the smartest in any room)

I don't think it is about owning a room.It is a certain sense of entitlement that some, not all, private school people have.

The benefits are smaller classes, better facilities, better staff, more resources, a better approach to academics by the children, more supportive parents, better behaviour and more opportunities for extra-curricular and, of course, networking. I think independent schools are often able to instil growth mindsets and the confidence that comes with this.

Of course this is my experience and not all schools are the same. There are terrible independent schools and amazing state schools.

I think replies about academic failings of Indy schools are misleading though and you have to wonder about the people who purport to be tutors. At best they have a limited range of experience and, of course, are more likely to work with underperforming children. A Level / IB and GCSE results show that Indy schools take the lead.

I went to private school, on a huge scholarship, parents could never afford the full fees. It was a fantastic school, I had so many opportunities and I would never have made it to university and my no very good career without it.

My two sisters went to local comp, whilst good they were not pushed at alll and are now both in lower paid jobs, having not got the higher level qualifications needed to make the jump up.

I would no qualms at all about sending any children i have to my old school.

I used to live in an affluent SW London Borough and many of the child in localbstate primary there had that confidence and sense of entitlement that people have mentioned as a benefit of private school.

Some parents were also quite assertive (pushy?) and very much demanded the best from the teachers.

Have since moved to a less well off area and feel the difference daily. So I think the socioeconomic background of pupils matters massively.

That is interesting Lady. So down to their background then, not the school. I come across some of these types at work and they often have a sense of confidence and entitlement disproportionate to their actual abilities. But they also tend to get promoted much faster.

I think it depends on the child. I went to an independent school and the benefits were;

Structure. If you're the type of kid who lacks motivation, the school will push you and hold your hand. However, uni will come as a shock after this.

Opportunities and facilities. We were taught Latin, Greek, Classics. Private tennis coach, musical instrument lessons. Public speaking, chamber choir, cadets, own swimming pool, they had their own art kiln and an armoury. Basically whatever talent your child has, it will be accommodated and nurtured.

Life skills. No idea about other schools but we were taught things like how to write a formal letter, how to make a speech etc. Things that have stayed with me. All sixth formed were required to do half a day if volunteer work a week. The cynic in me says it was for university applications but it did teach life skills and civic responsibility to children from privileged backgrounds.

The pastoral care was also excellent and had very few instances of bullying. It just depends on your child and what kind of environment you think they'd benefit from. Ultimately, bright motivated children will succeed in life no matter where they go, but I'm grateful for the opportunities that my education gave me and the sacrifices my parents made to send me.

I went to a good state school (grammar, and academically good). I did very well and went to Cambridge. I met my DH there, he went predominantly to independent school - he moved around a lot so went to several different ones and also did half a term in a local comprehensive. I have taught in state and independent, he teaches in independent. So we've got quite a breadth of experience between us.

As many have said, there is a LOT of variety between schools of both kinds. A child that is supported by parents and encouraged to have confidence in their own ability to learn and succeed will do well academically in either environment. However, smaller class sizes, (generally) less stressed teachers and a larger dedicated pastoral team means problems are usually picked up much more quickly. This means they don't go unnoticed and cause academic problems, but I have seen instances where I think the child would have learnt more by working it out themselves - this has led to some less resilient kids feeling that they cannot solve their own problems, which has given them some trouble at university.

The extracurricular opportunities at independent school at astronomically greater. My DH has experience of just about every sport and is reasonably good at them, and can do lots of other things he tried at school. I think this is one of the things that helps with networking - having had a variety of different experiences means you are more likely to be able to find common ground with someone in conversation.

As far as experiencing a wide variety of different people - financially there is a huge range in independent schools IF it has a decent scholarship/bursary program (which many do, especially in London). There are usually Lso many students from other countries, which provides some breadth of perspective. I have found that the super rich pupils you get at some independent schools aren't at all snobby - they have never been shot of money, so almost don't value it. There are a few more of the more obnoxiously entitled kids than I saw at state school, but actually not all that many, and that attitude of entitlement is something kids need to learn to deal with as they will definitely come across it at university!

Overall, I'd say it's a benefit academically, especially to those who are less confident or able at age 11. Emotionally I think it provides MANY more opportunities for speaking and expressing, which builds confidence. BUT parents need to be very careful that children don't feel pressured unduly and are given opportunities to fix their own friendship issues and conflicts.

I would very much like my DD (& any other DC we have) to attend an independent school, but would select it carefully and try to speak to existing parents first.

(I also have 10 years of tutoring experience, including some time when it was my main employment, so I've seen kids from over 100 schools, mostly in London)

I actually think you've hit the nail on the head op, I was talking to dh about this the other day.

Ime the people I know who went to private school do generally seem to have a self belief that I don't see in my state school educated friends (including me) that sets them up well for leadership roles.

It's hard to say whether it's the education though (there is no doubt in my mind that private schools teach children that they are destined for high places, success and achievement) or whether it's parental attitudes to education. For example, perhaps parents who think like this are already in a position financially to do the same for their children, or perhaps they raise their dc with different expectations of what constitutes success and think that private school will do that for them.

I sometimes wonder whether state educated kids become more resilient though, because they may have had to deal with more adverse situations in a school environment and mix with a much wider range of people.

Without fail, the privately educated people I know have achieved more traditional success (highly paid jobs in senior leadership positions) than the brightest of my state educated companions.

Dd is at Private School most of her peers from state Primary are at the 2 local comps.I am still friends with a lot of their parents and the advantages my dd has in my opinion based on what the parents of her friends have said
Smaller classes
Better behaviour
More resources
Less turnover of teachers
Lack of being teased for being clever or working hard
Amazing guest speakers
Better after school clubs
Involved parents/parent contributions (non financial)
These are the advantages of one specific school over 2 others though, it’s not generic

Thank you everyone. Although I get where those who feel the thread is depressing are coming from, I don't feel the same. On the one hand no, I do not want my child to turn into some sort of Bullingdon club type, even though they are probably pretty happy with their lot. On the other hand, there is a certain type of confidence, which falls short of arrogance, which is attractive - the type that involves gravitas and being/putting people at ease. It's probably harder to acquire than I think though! It's largely academic anyway. I was interested in understanding through this thread whether I'd choose private education even if I could so I didn't really go into the ins and outs of whether I could actually afford it.