To ask about the advantages of private school?

[longestlurkerever]

This is probably going to come across badly, but I'm interested in hearing people's opinions. I went to a middle of the road state school and then Oxford. I came away with a first class law degree and a training contract at a magic circle law firm. Although I didn't especially enjoy secondary school, I suppose I've always thought that it did the trick and my dds wouldn't lose anything if they had the same education as me. Recently though I've been working through some stuff with the help of a leadership course at work and realise that, even once you bag the job, there are an awful lot of unwritten rules that I am not sure I am fully understand - how to network effectively, how to have authority in senior meetings and just generally how to go through life feeling assured and confident and have been wondering if this is what private schooling is really all about? I still am not sure I'd choose private school for my dds even if it is, and would have to make some tough decisions to afford it anyway, but I am interested in what the benefits are so I can weigh them up.

I went to private school nearly all of my life. I also did several other similarly 'posh' things that were probably not in keeping with my fairly working/lower middle class family background (we were not rich, very working class roots, but parents really scrimped and saved to make these things possible for me as I was an only child and they really believed in education and social mobility). The smaller class sizes were really beneficial. I didn't have a lot of natural confidence as a child, even though I was clever enough. I would have been lost in a bigger school with less personal attention and encouragement. I think it had a lot to do with why I achieved so much professionally (I'm an academic now with a PhD).

But honestly a lot of it really was about learning particular social norms and expectations. I took ettiquette classes at school. I had friends from all over the world (went to a boarding school, didn't board myself though). I learned how to shift from being around family and friends outside of school (who were generally fairly working class) to being around really posh, cosmopolitan people. I didn't learn that all in school, but it created an opportunity for me to at least practice those skills and I've come across situations socially and professionally where that's been really helpful. I'm sure it's possible to learn that in other ways as an adult. But I think school did really help me. Now that may not matter for everyone, but I've definitely thought it was helpful. I would have felt a bit more like a fish out of water without having those skills and that confidence.

I'm another one here to remind you not all private schools are good - some of them exist purely to provide a place for the dim children of rich people who don't want their little darlings to have to mix with the wrong sort of people even though they wouldn't pass an entrance exam.

The best thing about the one I went to was leaving - we moved house and I ended up at an excellent state grammar where no one took the piss out of me for reading for fun and not owning a horse. Don't waste your money.

State school educated Doctor here. I think anyone out if their comfort zone feels exposed and inadequate.

DH went to private school here in Scotland and he's very similar to me. The only kids I felt completely alienated by were the boarding school kids who spoke so differently (even if they were Scottish) that I felt like a different species.

I remember attending a party at a student flat owned by the daughter of someone quite rich-the flat was nicer than my family home .

Everyone was lovely but it was like dealing with a different species sometimes. I remember one girl thinking she could just use my course with as her own because "I was skiing ya and like totally caught up". I think that a sense of entitlement migh get you quite far but it certainly doesn't make you competent - just look at our last few governments .

We're sending our kids to the local state schools because we're skint, the schools are good and if they're shit then we can work as a community to make them better .

Sorry about the above typos.

Also should add that DH hated private school and still resents the decision his parents made all those years ago (it's Friday though so I'm not going to open that 5 hours worth of himdroning on about a Victorian hellhole and no one understanding him )....

I went to a very expensive private school. At twenty I became a very well paid escort (prostitue). The only advantage of private school- I spoke well and they didn’t feel like they were with someone off the street. Currently in a mediocre job.

The 5yr old children at my kids state primary do not play call of duty...unvelievable bollcks snobbery

Also OP, it depends where you live because if it's in London or any other major city, an independent school will actually be more diverse anyway than say, a good comprehensive or grammar in the suburbs or more rural areas. My DS is at a well-known London day school, and it's probably as ethnically diverse as you can get. 20% are also on some kind of bursary.

It's all very well saying you want your children to mix with a range of children from different backgrounds, but what if a significant proportion of that "diverse range" are disruptive or have behaviour difficulties? How will it benefit your DC if the teacher's efforts are diverted to dealing with this kind of stuff, day in day out? It's all very well experiencing diversity as long as they all want to learn! I would argue that a state secondary school in a predominantly white, middle-class area will be less diverse in terms of Its students than many of the independents, which have no catchment areas and select from all walks of life based on merit and merit alone. Getting into an excellent independent secondary is no walk in the park and competition is extremely fierce - not only the exam process but they have to deal with the interviews as well. It's tough, but again, it prepares them for the challenges e.g. when applying for uni or jobs.

Well said, waterrat!

Yes there are undoubtedly bad private schools, but is anyone going to claim that a private school that's, say, average for private schools wouldn't have advantages over a comprehensive that's average for comprehensives?

I currently teach part-time at a not very academic and rather disorganised and old-fashioned private boarding school. My dd goes to an above average secondary school in a nice area. There's still no comparison and she would do better at the mediocre private school, have better facilities, far more opportunities to try different activities, and it is more ethnically diverse. The kids are respectful, well-behaved, articulate and co-operative.

At the school one of mine goes to there are 1,300 applicants for 120 places going into Year 7. They all sit the 3 hour entrance exam (they will all be doing the same for maybe 4 or 5 other schools as there's no guarantee of a place anywhere). Then they interview the 450 top scorers for the 120 places. They select according to confidence, extra curricular and how they present themselves, in addition to academics.

Our local "outstanding" comp, gets about 30% A-A at GCSE. This selective schools in the area get around 95% A-A. You don't need to be an outlier to go to Oxbridge because 30-40% do every year, with many others going to top medical schools, etc. There is a dedicated dept. to guide students towards US Ivy League too and about 30 students go every year. It's regarded as a very reasonable expectation for all.

I think what I'm trying to say is that obviously, a certain level of income is neccessary to attend these schools (unless you're one of the 20% who win bursary funding), but if your child does not get through the entrance process, you can throw as much money as you like at the school, it will make no difference. So these pupils have fought hard for their places among stiff competition. It's highly stressful and they don't take the opportunities for granted. They know the wider world will be just as competitive. There is nobody to blame or hide behind if they don't make the most of their potential.

I went to a state school, then private school, Cambridge and onto a magic circle training contract. I am really pleased I went to private school, mostly because I got so much enjoyment from Latin and Ancient Greek (neither of which are taught in any of the local state schools). My private school was also happy to bump me up a year when I started to get bored, whereas the local state school had a policy against that.

DD is state educated and about to embark on law school, she’s got an unconditional so she’s going come what may. We’ve been talking today about why we moved house so I couldn’t get her a scholarship at a local private.
DD has done exceptionally well despite me not getting her a scholarship. 9A* and a B at GCSE (she couldn’t give a monkeys about the B because it was drama that she hated beyond year 12).
She’s got an unconditional and a reduced offer plus 2 other offers to read law so far.
Would Private school have made it even better? I doubt it, a good state school and a dedicated mind is all they need, along with a bit of parental nagging.

Some private schools are offering you the service of turning your child into a replica of the 1000s who have been through those school gates before them.
Some are offering you the service of a hot house
Some are offering, excellent pastoral care, a nurturing environment where your child will thrive as an individual and will enjoy their day.

I went to the first sort of private school and was miserable-and after a brush with the state sector my children go to the third sort of private school.
I don't pay for their school fees because I think private is better, I pay because the school I feel is best for them charges fees

Thanks. I suppose part of it comes down to whether you want your child to have a world at my feet attitude or some degree of humility I suppose, and whether you should be attempting to engineer this stuff at l. Lots to think about, thanks everyone

My dd is currently at a small primary school in a privileged bubble in North London. She has quite a few of the advantages/disadvantages of probate school (including a headteacher that greets all the children by name as they arrive!) But things will change at secondary school. I think I'm ready to embrace that but it's worth knowing what she might miss.

I'm with you @waterrat I've yet to teach a 5 year old (reception class teacher in a state school) that plays call of duty.

The only encounter I had with private school was when we played a secondary school hockey tournament there. Private school fielded half a team, teacher went to look for them, found them snorting coke in the girls toilet block.

Presumably not all private or state schools are the same however.

OP, if you're in North London you have access to some of the top independents in the country - St Paul's Girls, NLCS, Latymer Upper, Highgate, to name but a few. Please don't make the mistake of thinking there is a "type" in any of these schools. There really isn't. My DS has just come home from a friend's flat in the Roehampton Estate. Tomorrow they're off to someone else's house in Mayfair. In fact, it's the DC of the truly wealthy are often the most humble because they're embarrassed about it.

It depends on the fit between pupil and school, but if you have a good private school near you that suits your child I can’t see any disadvantages.

Good prrivate schools generally have:

• Smaller classes
• Less disruption in class
• Better facilities
• More access to extracurricular activities and sport
• High academic aspirations
• Wider choice of subjects often eg languages
• Build confidence and gravitas
• Better ‘network’ of classmates

Has any mentioned that because you are paying directly, concerns are always taken seriously and the teachers are, well, just nicer to you!

I went to single sex private boarding school for 6th form. I was surrounded by a lot of arrogance and self entitlement from other pupils. I'd choose state school for my own children any day

I teach in a private school and therefore my children are also privately educated (well, eldest is now at senior school but she chose a stage school and got a scholarship so still very cheap for me!)

Advantages as far as the school I teach at goes:

1. small class sizes (often around 10 or fewer for low ability pupils and never more than 18)

2. wrap around care all included in fees - children can be in from 7.30am right up until 8.30 at night. Or they can board - full, weekly or flexi. That amount of childcare paid for out of school could total a huge percentage of the school fees.

3. tracking and support of children who are middle of the road academically or who have special educational needs. Those who are academic high flyers anyway don't need to levels of individual attention that private schools can provide.

4. extra curricular facilities and opportunities - sport, music, drama, art, leadership, trips, range of clubs all far exceed a state primary (I think the difference between state and primary lessens in this area when you compare state secondaries).

5. staff to pupil ratio allowing an in depth knowledge of each child and their families. Each member of staff has overall pastoral and academic responsibility (personal tutor) for around 6-8 children only.

6. the right to demand more of staff. Parents are usually in school every day. We are required to respond to emails within 24 hours and we get dozens a week. We have to address and attempt to meet all parental requests that are even vaguely reasonable (extra work for home to be marked and fed back on, extra tutoring sessions, changes of class/seat/set, investigation of potential academic or social additional need etc etc). If the parents are paying such huge amounts of money (and often making big sacrifices to do so) then we need to make sure their money is well spent.

7. choice. Parents can choose the school because they think it suits their particular child and, if they don't like something enough, they can just move.

There are, of course, downsides too. Including:

• very long hours including Saturdays for quite young children (from age 8 it's a 4.45pm finish and Saturday mornings).
• a curriculum which, for some children, pushes too hard and too fast
• often behind in digital education
• smaller classes and ability grouping can (though shouldn't of course) lead to lazier, poorer teaching.
• less socio-economic diversity (in our area this is a trade off for far greater ethnic diversity but this obviously isn't the case everywhere)
• can be very competitive and overly busy environment.
• amount of curriculum time lost for extra sport, drama, music, visiting speakers/workshops and trips
• money!

The only difference I’ve noticed between people who went to private and those who went to a decent state with supportive parents, is the air confidence of those who went to private, as others have pointed out.
They seem to be able to engage with everyone they speak to, no matter who.
I wish it could be something that state school could achieve.

my daughter is in a private prep and my son will follow when he is 3 - for us, the state schools around us were over-subscribed and we liked the small class sizes (she is 1 of 13). Quite a bit of extra curricular available and good sports selection - dd is learning Mandarin and Spanish at 3 (basic of course). It really does depend on the school - im sure not all private ones are great just because they are private...

@manic do you write the schools prospectus?