To ask about the advantages of private school?

[longestlurkerever]

This is probably going to come across badly, but I'm interested in hearing people's opinions. I went to a middle of the road state school and then Oxford. I came away with a first class law degree and a training contract at a magic circle law firm. Although I didn't especially enjoy secondary school, I suppose I've always thought that it did the trick and my dds wouldn't lose anything if they had the same education as me. Recently though I've been working through some stuff with the help of a leadership course at work and realise that, even once you bag the job, there are an awful lot of unwritten rules that I am not sure I am fully understand - how to network effectively, how to have authority in senior meetings and just generally how to go through life feeling assured and confident and have been wondering if this is what private schooling is really all about? I still am not sure I'd choose private school for my dds even if it is, and would have to make some tough decisions to afford it anyway, but I am interested in what the benefits are so I can weigh them up.

It sounds like the top schools are pretty high stakes places. Thinking about it one of my best friends who exudes the most natural charm and confidence spends a lot of the time feeling he's not living up to his actually quite flashy and entitled if very successful father. He's a million times nicer than his dad but doesn't see it.

I have definitely felt like a failure unless I have achieved over and above, if I'm not the best - I'm very competitive. This has been an incredible driving force in my life and doubtless helped me to achieve what I have - and had the confidence to push forward. But it has also come with a degree of in the self doubt masked by outer confidence. That said, that's only in areas I care about. I was utterly shit at sport, music, art and CDT. I was absolutely fine at being a dead leg in these subjects, so I was fine at not being the best in everything. But something I cared about, where I expected I should achieve, that was and is a different story

Can i just ask: do you have to pay extra for extra tuition/SEN involvement? We are currently considering private for our kids and haven't asked the school directly.

There is a HUGE range of private schools hat focus on very different things. When you choose to go private what you are paying for is to make that choice. The facilities should be better, the classes smaller, the teachers less stressed and the curriculum broader. If you aren't getting those things then you need to choose a different private school.

We have had kids in both sectors. What sold me on our sons private school is that the school has time to grow and nurture him as an individual. No class of 30. No phonics check. No pushing him before he's ready just to get him over the year 2 SATs. He's had a much kinder, gentler ride than his siblings that went to a state primary. He has bags more confidence. In a smaller class he gets way more 1:1 attention. He had a main part in the nativity with loads of lines even though he was fairly unsure about it all at first. All those little experiences make a difference. Will end up with better A level results? Maybe but it's not why I chose to sent him private.

Longest good question about soft skills. If you are wanting to supplement state school activities here are things that have done that in my experience

Sport - especially team stuff because of things like the etiquette (clapping the other team into the clubhouse, shaking hands), awards evenings, getting on with team mates and overcoming differences of opinion etc

Music - orchestral music playing can really broaden education and give cultural confidence. Like sport there are high expectations of behaviour, lots of self discipline needed to deal with waiting around while another section works on a problem, confidence from starting a new piece and being rubbish and then improving through hours of hard slog before playing something really well.

Drama/singing/musical theatre - being able to speak in public, do presentations, just act really. Cultural capital again.

Of course the above requires major parental investment in terms of time, money and energy. You could just choose a good independent school who will do all this for you

I've had DC at both. My DC are bright and dyslexic so not the "bright kids will do well anywhere" kids. It is hard for state schools to offer much support to kids that will easily get 5 GCSEs as their support staff is being cut to the bone.

In my experience the areas where the Indy beats the nice state schools we have used are:

Choral singing - (hard to arrange outside school where I live, nearly impossible in fact). DC at private school sings three times a week.

Exercise - again 3 or 4 times a week and loads of variety of sports, high standards of coaching, facilities. Even if they're not in A teams they are out excercising. DC not a lover of team sport but is fit.

Food - hugely better than state offerings. DC is hungry after school but not starving like they were at primary and like sibling at state secondary is. There is a great choice of hot meals, salads, veg, side dishes, all served buffet style so they can eat plenty. Only one serving of pudding allowed. Lunch time has well managed sittings so everyone gets chance to eat. All the staff eat in the dining room and atmosphere is nice.

Staff more able to support, advise, offer help. In DT if a student wants to test something out they will set up an experiment in class or if it is big in the lunchtimes.

Curriculum - staff can teach what they want early on so can incorporate really interesting stuff.

Lots of homework could be a downside but it is always related to what is being done in class so DC knows what to do and does not need a lot of help.

"Have you seen Boris Johnson?"

Well I think we've all seen him

The perception that independent schools invariably churn out this type of pompous buffoon is beyond ridiculous. Firstly, there is a difference between the boarding experience and the day school experience, not to mention country schools with rolling grounds versus the London super selective "hothouses". Every independent school has its own ethos and atmosphere.

DS is in a London super selective. None of his friends (including him) are white British, let alone Boris types. Some are from single parent families, some are on bursaries and most of them are from fairly average London families who struggle and make sacrifices to pay the fees. Yes there are a fair few who live in mansions in Kensington etc, but there is such a mix of backgrounds and cultures in the school that nobody feels as if they would stand out. Once in the school, they all work hard because there is no other option. The GCSE syllabus is covered way ahead of Year 11, so they use the extra time to consolidate and extend their knowledge beyond GCSE. Truancy or violence in school is unheard of, you would be expelled. Nearly all the DC come in from all parts of London by tube, they are street savvy and confident in negotiating their way around London from a young age. It's hardly the experience of being cloistered away in a rarefied bubble.

Americanos - yes you would have to pay for SEN as additional sessions, unless it's a specialist school.

Thanks chilly. We are in London as I said, so there opportunities to do all those things if we take them.

A friend of mine does flexi-schooling - she home-schools her dd on a Friday. I am quite attracted to the idea. I even raised it with dd1's school before she started there but they weren't keen. Dd2 is at nursery attached to a different school and there they are very encouraging of it.

Sorry, that last paragraph probably sounds a bit random. I meant that if I did that it'd certainly be with a view to broadening their education.

When I returned to the UK I was told by my 3 local schools that my eldest son would not get a place. At age 11 he was offered his 4th choice in secondary. Aside from the fact that I can't get my DC into a decent state school here are my reasons for sending both of them to a very good private school.

Our private school constantly talks about the future and what it will look like and what they are doing to prepare our DC for it. That includes languages, technology and social skills. IMO they are way ahead of the game. Our DC have been using iPads, doing coding and STEAM for years, not just recently. Both my DC have been learning 3 languages in primary. My eldest was on a very successful sports team. They only had 20 boys to pick 11 out of and they did really well nationally because of the great coaches they had.

There are 20 DC in a class. On average I'd say 18 of them are very highly motivated and have parents that have very high expectations of their DC. It's cool to love maths and science and it's cool to be good at performing arts. They play sport every day. The opportunities and support they have at the school makes them the best version of themselves. They are very confident, but not in an arrogant way.

The school has a very healthy balance of discipline and nurturing. I've never heard of anyone in our school getting into a fight or serious bullying.

I think my DC would have done well in a state school but I think at the end of the day being at our private school will make a different to their grades due to the environment they are in. For me though it is not about the end game. I don't care if another child gets 4 A's in their A levels at a state school and mine doesn't. Its also about the journey, not the destination. I look at the way my DC act, how confident they are, what they get exposed to and how much they love their school and I know it's worth every penny. In fact, I'd sell everything I had before I took them out of it.

!ndio - OK, thankyou. My ds autistic and very clever - he's just not being pushed where he is. He will need some input at some point - It's useful for us to calculate the real cost.

I went to a private school myself and the extras really added up.

The other good thing about where we live though is the big range of holiday clubs - sailing, drama, sport etc so I suppose flexi-schooling is not the only option

Americanos - at DD's prep SEN assistants etc are included in the fees as are extra lessons with internal staff. External staff are an extra cost.

I went to private school between the ages of 10 and 18 after attending primary school in a very low/working class area as I was always top of the class my mum asked me to take the entrance exam and see how I did. I passed and was happy to go, luckily for my single parent mum it was back in the days of full bursaries. I did go from being "top of my class" to a middle of the road student who did average in most subjects.

DH has always attended private school and has never known any different, which has made the subject awkward when discussing our plans for our children when they come along.

I am very much a believer in a private school benefitting those children who excel in a particular subject and who academic, whilst not necessarily having the same benefit to those children who are middle of the road kids like me. I also believe in letting children have a say in the choice to attend (as long as the reasons to go/not go are reasonable ones, not just what their friends are doing)

DH went to a top public school I certainly didn't, we met working in the same University dept.

We chose not to send DS to a public school. I agree it can bring confidence but having worked in higher education for 25 years so worked with end product I'm afraid it brought arrogance too often for my liking.

We know investment bankers, solicitors, surgeons etc. These people can help with advice and placements. DS has already been offered an internship with a major company because our friend is the VP of a global pharmaceutical company. It's about who you know and private schools filter apart from the odd scholarship by money, it possibly buys access to a world with connections.

The soft skills that people have talked about are easy to pick up. I achieved true social mobility so have mixed with people from all walks of life I'm glad of that.

Class. At the core of it. Middle classes act upon perceived entitlement (conscious & unconscious)
Mc know and understand the rules because they make the rules , the in jokes,the accent,the patter
So a mc class school with involved parents,stable home lives,no financial difficulties will produce good exam results
A wc school,social issues,usually produce lower exam results
I went to state school, qualified in a profession, often I feel like an imposter.a bit wtf
I work with folk,parents also professionals,it was a given they’d go to uni and do well
Wasn’t a given fir me,it was graft and hard work.but I wanted it.so badly

On the upside I didn’t have those handwringing who am i? dramas at uni
folk like me didn’t have the time or head space for it, had to get on with it
I wasn’t burdened by a weight of expectation, based on whom my parents are

So I don’t know if at the private school you get more bang for your buck, more polished, composed and socially adept. It’s hard to unpick it as people (naturally) get defensive

I feel I need to disavow people of the state schools are more socially mixed,meet everyone,and its a leveller. I live in an affluent area,the kids at local schools are all mc,much of a muchness. A class of homogeneous mc kids. Professional parents✅ , Tutors✅, Range of paid for activities✅ , affluent ✅. My kids don’t have tutors or activities and I have been asked why, as if they’re missing out. So no I don’t think private school = horahs and state school isn’t necessarily a great popular to socially mix

Autocorrect fail
So no I don’t think private school = horahs and state school isn’t necessarily a great opportunity to socially mix

@Peanutbuttercheese as someone who has also worked in HE for a long time, I'm always puzzled when people make generalisations about students from particular types of schools. How is it that you know what schools large numbers of the students you teach attend? I'd only know it for the ones I'm director of studies for, and then only if I look it up. I suppose in some cases they may tell you, but it seems unlikely that the ones who do so will be typical...

Attended, I mean, obviously.

Put the money you would spend on private school in a stocks and shares ISA. Give little Tarquin half a million squids when he is 18 as an apology that he didn't get to go private. He will probably forgive you.

Op, I genuinely don’t think private schools is an objective conversation one has
It’s so value laden on both sides,that I don’t think you’ll get an overall balanced response
You’ll get told some shocking stereotypes
state school = feral kids,distant teachers,low ambitions,unstimulating environment
Private school= horahs from privileged backgrounds, no social mix,inability to think for self,spoon fed acts

Make your own mind up.youre best placed as you know your own children

I went to private school and have many friends who were also privately educated.

My observation is that the air of confidence you talk about comes from background/personality more than being down to school. Many of my private school friends suffer from anxiety and/or are incredibly introverted and/or have selected jobs way below their academic potential because they doubt their abilities. The most confident people I know on the other hand all come from family backgrounds where their parents are incredibly confident and/or well connected (one of the most confident went to a state school that would nowadays be described as totally failing and be avoided like the plague by most on MN).

Also worth noting, although this may be different these days, but when I went to private school there was definitely an unspoken "way to behave/do things" - similar to what OP mentions as noting in her job. My parents weren't from the "right" background so didn't understand the unspoken rules of parental expectation and so I spent a lot of private school feeling I didn't fit in and was doing things wrong - not great for building confidence. However today a parent can access sites like MN to help them understand some of the unwritten rules, so perhaps it's not such an issue.

My own feeling (as others have noted on thread) is that it's more beneficial to save the money that would be spent on private school to supplement as necessary during school years and then be in a position to give your child a lump sum as a young adult. It seems to me that adults whose parents have been able to give them a financial boost in their 20s (whether university/house deposit/supporting through internship) have benefited more from this than having money spent on private education while they were young.

Yes, to the rules. MC rules and etiquettes, understood implicitly by mc as they wrote the fuckin rules
Therein is the immediate disadvantage, if one isn’t already mc,you don’t know the rules

I don't anyone playing a violin for me here. I am middle class, and was growing up too, just not upper middle class - nannies, skiing, tennis and all that jazz, and I suppose I'm only now learning what that means in terms of less obvious stuff . My kids don't have these things either but live in a world where they are more commonplace, and could do, I suppose, if I made different choices (worked full time, lived further out of London etc)

I mean this in a non confrontational way,sort yourself out regard this.make up own mind
Really. No one can tell you what to do. They can tell you their individual preference as pass it off as gospel
I might ask mn to suggest me a holiday destination. Sure as shit won’t ask mn how to school my kids