AIBU to think it is irresponsible to eat a meal full of sugar and fats if you are diabetic?

[lolaflores]

SIL has type 2 diabetes. In the last 2 years or so it has become very problematic, hard to control, difficult to get accurate sugar levels. She has been really poorly, hospitalized etc. I don't know if this has to do with her age and menopause etc but, for whatever reasons her condition has caused a lot of concern
All of which made me express my surprise of a pic she posted of her breakfast this morning.
A stack of pancakes topped with several crispy rashers of bacon and the whole lot swimming in maple syrup...
I mentioned it to my DH saying I thought it was irresponsible of her to eat like that given the state of her diabetes.
He didn't see the problem
Am I being thick or is he.
If there is somethign I am missing about diabetes management then would someone enlighten me because I can't see anything right about that meal for someone with that condition....

LCHF works brilliantly to control diabetes. That’s how I do it. Plenty of health practitioners are cottoning on, although it will take a long time for a behemoth like the NHS to properly reflect

And yes, the nurse is right. For the purposes of blood glucose control bananas and grapes are really not great. Fruit = sugar.

Oops missed out the end of the sentence!

...for a behemoth like the NHS to reflect current research on it.

Whether the syrup has sugar in or is 100% natural maple is irrelevant, both can cause blood glucose levels to spike.
However, a one off treat isn't so bad as long as her blood glucose levels are well-managed overall and she attends her Diabetic Reviews.

@Rebeccaslicker thank you for explaining diabetes decision fatigue so well. It’s even worse when you take home snacks and other family members into account.

Unfortunately half the problem with patients with type 2 diabetes is getting them to take responsibility for there own health.
I agree she should be taking things more seriously.

She can have pancakes and maple syrup but needs to have everything in moderation.
Has she been on the DESMOND or EXPERT diabetes courses who can give her a further insight into the condition. The Gp can normally refer.
Alternatively, diabetes U.K. is a fantastic site for information and has lots of recipes on there including the pancakes she enjoys

www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/recipes/recipe-search-results?search=Pancakes

Thanks to those who have pointed out the fatigue that comes with diabetes (T1 and T2).

Most T2 diabetes is caused by a combination of genetics and lifestyle factors which results in insulin resistance. This means that while your body produces enough insulin it can’t use it properly. Controlling it means balancing not just food, but also exercise, stress, sleep and also factors like the weather.

T2 diabetics often find it hard to lose weight because they are insulin resistant.

Like people with any health condition they need support and understanding, not judgement and questioning. If you are cooking a family meal make sure they can eat all of it, not have to miss out on a lot of it.

Depression is common for people with diabetes. That makes managing a condition harder.

How do I know this. I was diagnosed with T1 diabetes in 2016 aged 37. I’m slightly unusual in that I’ve extended what is called a “honeymoon” (not a fun one) until now. I produce insulin, but not enough. But I researched and made significant changes and my hb1ac of 31 at the last test. This is non-diabetic levels. But it’s constant and draining and there are times when I’m exhausted. Interestingly, if I followed mainstream diabetes management advice my control wouldn’t be as tight.

One last thing, has your SIL had her thyroid function tested? Not just TSH but T3 and T4 too. Hypothyroidism can also make weight loss hard if she has tried before without success.

Rebeccaslicker - pretty much everything you mention there is the same for coeliacs in terms of never being able to easily grab something for lunch and it being every day of your life. It's pretty crappy a lot of the time but all the coeliacs i know are super strict about sticking to it. I wonder if the difference is the effects of eating something you shouldn't can be pretty quick for a coeliac which is why they stick to the restriction in the way a lot of diabetics mentioned here don't?

Olga - I am sure that is a part of it, yes. You can walk around with moderate to high blood sugar and have no idea, so it's very easy to tell yourself it's fine or you deserve a treat or whatever. Whereas if it had an immediate painful and unpleasant physical effect, people would think twice (they could try metformin if they want a taster... they call it "metformin moment" for a good reason!).

My niece has T1, which is a whole world apart from T2 of course, but the poor kid also has coelitis. The medications for each condition don't always sit comfortably together but other than that it's the coelitis that makes her miserable far more than the diabetes.

I'm having a shit day today because I'm heavily pregnant so it's much harder to keep things under control. When you want a lovely bowl of granola and ice cold milk for breakfast, but have to settle for a piece of quiche with the crusts all cut off, and you still get a high reading, it's really depressing.

Then we stopped at a cafe. On a 3 page menu of lovely massive cold sandwiches, hot toasted fancy sandwiches, hot food like home made lasagne and pies, and a massive rack of cakes, literally the only thing I could have eaten was scrambled eggs with no toast. If I ate meat I could also have had a sausage and some bacon. Now that may sound fine at first - but every single time you go out? It's really really shit.

I look at what my niece juggles at just 13, and I know it could be worse, but honestly it really grinds you down after a while. It's not surprising that people do give up or stay in denial!

Do you think that she doesn't know it is not a particularly good choice meal wise ? She almost certainly does . Your tutting and sighing about this choice will not make the slightest bit of difference to her behaviour with regards her health .

You are right, purse. She risks serious complications which are entirely avoidable. You can reverse type 2 through diet. It is costing NHS a small fortune.
The issue is though that people dislike hearing the truth and consciously choose to ignore medical advice. Some people even develop a victim/patient mentality where the illness becomes part of their identity and losing that feels risky to them. She has to want to change.

What an awful thread. Many posters misinformed. Most judgemental.

I've had T1 for over 40 years, diagnosed as a baby, and it's hard work.

Rebecca : please can you provide a link :
"There's a lot of stats now that show you begin to damage nerves in your eyes and extremities once your blood sugar gets past about 7.8. "

And Crumbs: please can you provide a link? on the fact that T2 is so easy to reverse?

Because I don't think it is. Reversing often only affects those who have had diabetes for less than 3 years.

And others spouting stuff about MM (Michael Mosley) BSD (Blood sugar diet) and general LCHF which is all the rage right now.

Before you post general claims or advice. Please take care.

Now I choose to follow MM's BSD, even though it's not recommended for T1's ........but this way of eat of eating, has not had enough research done on it yet. Not monitored enough, for research to know the long term affects.

Thus it is not supported by the BDA (British Diabetic Association) YET.

I'm sure I'll be discussing this with one of the UK's top Diabetic Consultants, next week.

But please don't make ill informed general huge sweeping generalisations and claims.

Because most of you don't have the skills and knowledge to make such claims.

I have a suggestion for the OP and all the other non-diabetics who are judging the OP's SIL.....
Spend a month on a "diabetic" diet. No cheating, no treats whatsoever, no "off days" for special celebrations........
Then perhaps you'll have an inkling of how challenging it is to always have to monitor what you eat.

I'm diabetic. It wasn't caused by "lifestyle factors". I am well within the normal range of BMI (on the low side actually!), I am very active and prior to developing diabetes, I had a healthy diet - hardly any processed food and cooking from scratch every night. However, I developed gestational diabetes when I was pregnant (I'm one of the "at risk" ethnicities) and my blood sugar has continued to be elevated after giving birth.

Going by the lifespans of my grandparents and parents (who were/ are also diabetic), I may have another 40 - 50 years left on this planet. The thought of never deviating from a strict diabetic diet for the rest of my life is utterly miserable.......

Another thing I've noticed is that since my diagnosis, I have had a physical craving for chocolate and other sweet food. I've never been a chocolate eater. Before my diagnosis, I used to be gifted boxes of chocolates from friends and they'd sit in the cupboard unopened and go in the bin when they reached their sell buy date or I would take them to work to avoid them being wasted. Since my diagnosis, I have an insatiable desire for chocolate and sweet things .

OP, I hear your concern but go easy on your SIL......and do try a diabetic diet for a month......if you have difficulty understanding why she makes the food choices she does, you'll find it illuminating (and from a health perspective, it certainly won't do you any harm)

Likes pp said about buying a sandwich in pret.....

living with diabetes is hard. Monotonous. You don't get a day off.Try it. See how you get on.......

Mine is very brittle. Sometimes patternless and not logical. Mine has mystified many top consultants, who find me "stimulating", "interesting".

Not for me it's not!

As soon as I open my eyes in the morning, in fact before I've even opened my eyes, tonnes of thoughts run through my head:

Thoughts:

Am I low, have I hypo'ed in the night, can I physically get out of bed, could I reach the lucozade if I needed to, where's my testing kit......

Has Dh left for work, am I in sole charge of ds's?

What time is it? Is it a work day? Am I walking Ds2 to school, riding bike, going in car..... thus have I enough time to prepare carb free/ extra carbs.... to compensate for the extra exercise I'm about to do ..... how much bolus shall I take for the youghurt and blueberries I'm about to eat.....

I have a work meeting with bank manager.... i mustn't go low..,, I must be on top form....

I will have to test 1/2 an hour before he comes.... when will I eat my lunch .... Christ I better get up earlier than normal to make a salad to compensate for that ......

And so the thought processes continue.

I fear/suspect I think 3 thoughts for every decision I need to make,compared to many other mums.

You should try it..... walk a mile 45 years in my shoes.

It's quite draining.

Judge away

Sounds like we have the same SIL. She's in total denial about her eating habits. Her excessive weight is down to her being on the pill over a decade ago, and nothing at all to do with the fact that she eats a couple of portions of takeaway at the same time and has a can of fizzy pop in her hand at all times. Since her diabetes diagnosis she hasn't altered her eating habits at all and that's her choice. She could lose her eyesight but hey, that would be the doctor's fault for not doing their job

It's her life to do with what she will.

I'm type 1 and often eat meals full of fat and sugar and then take my insulin like a good girl. Anyone judging me can do one

I too drink as much wine, crisps and chocolate as the next person. Because I'm trying to be normal. Rather than let diabetes dictate. I thought that was supposed to be the aim?

My consultant at aged 4 told my mum she was doing a good job of instilling in me that diabetes wasn't going to control, or dominate my life, but that I should always try and do what any other normal person would do.

Maybe you want us all to be miserable, with no fun, no enjoyment, no treats.

Is that the MN preference?

I know someone who’s t1 diabetic who seems to eat a lot of sugar but her blood sugars are well controlled as she’s a pro at calculating her insulin requirements.

Could your SIL ask about a pump if her BMs are poor?

Oblomov - here's a link to some studies. There's several of them suggesting that 7.8 is the point where damage occurs:

mobile.dudasite.com/site/phlaunt1?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phlaunt.com%2Fdiabetes%2F14045678.php&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

If link doesn't work, just google " phlaunt studies blood sugar damage 7.8" or something and it'll come up. You can then find the actual individual studies from the links in the article. I think the overall conclusion is the occasional spike won't matter but prolonged or regular sugar above that level will start to cause damage.

I get really cross when people say, "you can cure T2 with diet". No no no. SOME people can lower their blood sugar to normal levels and can come off medication etc with diet. But that's not a cure. If they they started eating exactly what they liked, they'd be back at square one. You don't magically grow more beta cells or regenerate the ability to regulate glucose. What you are talking about is strict CONTROL of diabetes.

It might be better than the alternatives for other diseases, including T1. But it's not a cure. It's a life sentence of a hugely restrictive diet that may or may not be enough long term. And that isn't really very cheering when you're up against it!

Mil and BIL are both type 2 diabetics.

I’ve watched over nearly 30 years how they abused their bodies, eating huge portions and sugary food, day after day. They’re both obese and surprise surprise, BIL gets diabetic at aged 40! Mil at 65.

Mil, despite very good advice from a diabetic nurse at her GPS, carries on eating whatever she likes. She’s had to inject over the past 3 years and has eye sight problems and awful feet problems. I hate watching her eat as I feel she’s killing herself. She’ll drink Coke as it “keeps her awake”

BIL has just spent 5 months in hospital after having a massive stroke. He won’t ever be the same again and can’t even wipe his own arse! His lovely wife will be doing that from now on . She’s begged him to stop eating so much crap for years. They’ve got two small dc, and she’s so fucking angry with him, that he’s done this to himself. (The stroke was caused by his diabetes). The only good thing about the stroke is that he’s now a healthy BMI and his diabetes is under control. Mind you, the first night out of hospital he had a melt down because she gave him a healthy portion of food, as advised by the hospital. He thought he’d go back to eating whatever he wanted. Some people never learn and i think those who love them have every right to feel frustrated and angry!

Also we're people with diabetes not diabetic... we are more than what are pancreas can or can not do... and type 2 in the actual title would be nice.

Yes I'm a moody miserable sod 😑

I am very sympathetic towards all the pps discussing the fatigue of constantly making good choices. I have gestational diabetes and have been counting down the days until I can eat normally again (8 to go). It would be so depressing to know it was forever.

Blue - that's how mine started. Had perfect blood sugar readings until then 😭

Hope you have much more luck.

Pancakes as a treat and grilled or fried with little or no fat bacon is fine for diabetics but the excessive maple syrup is a concern and unecessary.

I don't see why I should forego what I enjoy just because dh can't resist ice cream. Low fat natural yoghurt (no nasties, just yoghurt made from skimmed milk) and blueberries gets boring after a while.)

There is a low carb ice cream called OPPO, it's about 6g carbs per 100ml. They do chocolate hazlenut, salted caramel, or mint choc chip. I buy it from Waitrose but I've also seen it in Holland and Barrett. It's expensive - £5 per tub - but is so worth it to be able to have ice cream.

Also, it's possible to make low carb ice cream with an ice cream maker. I've bought the maker but haven't got round to it yet