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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to be disappointed that a man made this assumption?

228 replies

Soullesstrader · 26/01/2018 14:01

I work on a freelance basis in an industry that is generally forward thinking and innovative, but still largely male dominated at the senior level. I am at a senior level myself.

Today I was talking to a man at work - similar age, similar experience (I know his, he doesn't know mine), similar level. We were discussing what my next role might be and he started talking to me about how to find roles at a much more junior level - we're talking about jobs paying half my salary and requiring a quarter of my experience.

I can only assume that based on my gender and the fact I'm a single mother (he does know this about me as I told him) he had assumed he was far more senior than me.

AIBU to be shocked and really disappointed?

And no, I didn't say anything. I just smiled politely in the knowledge he will soon discover his mistake.

OP posts:

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 01:46

he may have assumed that being a single mum you would want a position with less responsibility and shorter hours? or maybe he just being a sexist you-know-what

shartsi · 27/01/2018 02:14

When I went to the bank to apply for a mortgage the woman assumed I wanted it for a right to buy. I didn't like it .

ShastaTrinity · 27/01/2018 07:46

Really disappointed in all of the ‘earnest’ comments explaining to the OP that this isn’t about her being a woman. Really?

Yes, really. Not everything is sexist. You can try to twist everything to make it look that way, but in real life it really isn't.

Original poster

Soullesstrader · 27/01/2018 08:37

If it were equally likely to happen to a man then it wouldn't be sexist but I really struggle to believe it.

Last night I did some rough calculations and realised this company has more women than men (and none of them are secretaries or similar by the way), but the board is 100% male despite none of them being over 50 and a couple only being in their thirties. I don't think they are staunchly anti-women at all, but I do think there's an everyday sexism going on where men just always seem to do that bit better in their careers.

OP posts:

strawberriesaregood · 27/01/2018 09:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PramWanker · 27/01/2018 09:06

Yes, really. Not everything is sexist. You can try to twist everything to make it look that way, but in real life it really isn't.

It's funny that you would choose to complain about twisting things to try and make a situation look a certain way in response to this post, rather than the people inventing alternative reasons, based on nothing at all, for this man making an irrational assumption about OP.

Weareallokaynow · 27/01/2018 09:07

Of course it was because you are a woman, more specifically, because you are a mum. There is an extra special level of underestimation for mothers. We are not going to get anywhere by some weird reverse PC thing where we pretend there isn't a problem.

WellThisIsShit · 27/01/2018 09:13

Depressing, but by smiling and deciding not to say anything, you’ve let him get away with his lazy sexism unchallenged. Sadly reinforcing his stereotypes.

I know it shouldn’t be up to you to wage war on misogyny every time you talk to a colleague but it is a bit unfortuneate to have left him with this wrong impression - unless you’re definitely sure it could never ever harm your professional reputation in any way no matter who he talks to now or where he and his career takes him in the future?

You were probably gobsmacked but I think now I’d be trying to manage this incident quickly to shut it (him!) down. Although you shouldn’t have to. Sigh.

FrancinePefko · 27/01/2018 09:14

This is a while ago now but a new guy at work assumed I was an EA. I let him keep digging as we walked into the conference room. It was wonderful to see the blood drain from his face when it dawned on him that I was more senior than his boss.

FinallyHere · 27/01/2018 09:25

I agree with wellthisisshit who wrote

Depressing, but by smiling and deciding not to say anything, you’ve let him get away with his lazy sexism unchallenged. Sadly reinforcing his stereotypes.

We can never tell what we would have done, but i do know this used to happen to me a lot, that someone assumes i am the admin or secretary. I would always laugh and join in the stories saying of yes, when i was doing x project something like that happened .... that was the project when i learned ... After that ... i always made sure..... Since I been managing the whole team I ...

They enjoy patronising you, I just can't let it happen. Often wish afterwards that i had just kept quiet..they call it willy waving....Sigh.

ShastaTrinity · 27/01/2018 09:42

I am trying to recruit for a well paid job, senior but without ridiculous hours. I am not getting any female CVs! At all! It drives me nuts! So we will probably end up recruiting another male, and then hear moans about how sexist the work place is.
This one isn't, but if no woman applies, what exactly am I supposed to do? I already work there, I am not going to apply for it as well.

PurpleRobe · 27/01/2018 10:08

If he doesn't know your skill level then no... I don't think he was in the wrong. He may have made same assumption if talking to a man.

If this had happened to me and he suggested junior roles, I would have just said "ah well actually I have xyz experience and skills so was thinking about xyz roles"

No drama... and he would have learnt something about you

strawberriesaregood · 27/01/2018 10:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GetDownDog · 27/01/2018 10:58

I think people are naïve to think this is to do with anything but sexism.
But it's the same old thing we see every time a man puts a woman down, or assaults a woman, or hurts a woman, or gaslights her. What has the woman done, what has she worn, what should she have said, did she deserve it? The tides may be turning a bit, what with # metoo, but there's still a broad assumption that women are at fault.

I await replies saying I'm being dramatic, and sure, the op's experience here on the surface isn't comparable with something more serious, but it's still mysoginy however you dress it up, and comes from the same nasty, insidious place.

KenAdams · 27/01/2018 11:10

For interviews and meetings I like to go and get suppliers and candidates from reception myself rather than send someone else as it's a good way to break the ice before you get into the formal part. I'm also happy to get them a drink etc. The number of times that they have been rude to me or dismissive assuming I'm a junior then their faces when I sit down to chair the meeting or panel is priceless.

PramWanker · 27/01/2018 11:12

If, hypothetically, there did exist a bloke who went round assuming that obviously 40 something men in the workplace he was conversing with were all at junior level, I wonder how long it would take before he were corrected sufficiently often to change his views? There are more 40 something men at senior level than there are women, so it's likely that he'd be doing it more often than a bloke who held those views about women would. Simply due to having more opportunity.

GetDownDog · 27/01/2018 11:18

IME men will either assume other men are senior or they'll ask conversationally.
IME men will assume women are junior and won't ask.

Original poster

Soullesstrader · 27/01/2018 11:33

If any of you work in advertising you will realise that no man would ever assume a man in his 40s would be in a junior role. It doesn't happen. There aren't many women that age in junior roles either. They are just very under represented in senior roles. The exceptions I've come across are where women have set up their own agencies or actually managed to get to the top and change things for women coming up through the ranks.

As PP said, it was possibly also about me having DC. It's not an environment where it's made easy for women to juggle work and home (and I don't have a DP before you start suggesting he could help).

Next time I will say something. As I said, I was caught off guard as it was unexpected.

OP posts:

kalapattar · 27/01/2018 11:46

No one should really be making judgements about other people - their skills etc without getting to know them first as individuals.

Sadly we still live in a world where people do make assumptions and judgements about other people - purely because of the 'group' they belong to.

Women get this a lot. BAME people get this. People with disabilities, different accents get this. It matters and it does affect how people are seen and valued.

ShastaTrinity · 27/01/2018 11:48

If no woman applies for a senior role, what exactly do you think should happen? You can't force people to go for promotions! Do you expect companies to employ a senior female, completely unsuitable for the role, just to make the numbers?

Sundaymorning1316 · 27/01/2018 11:50

YANBU to be disappointed, but it would have been much better to have corrected him. There's no need for pithy or confrontational retorts, just a straightforward correction- 'oh no, I'm actually X and I'm hoping to do Y next.' It does look quite petty to stay quiet and let him find out later. It would have been much more constructive to have a genuine conversation rather than trying to embarrass him.

PramWanker · 27/01/2018 11:52

Could you clarify what any of this has to do with the OP shasta? Or with any recent posts. Charitably, it sounds like you could do with your own thread to discuss this as it's obviously important to you.

Sundaymorning1316 · 27/01/2018 11:54

Sorry OP, I didn't see your update. I thought you didn't correct him on purpose, so he would be embarrassed later. I understand - it's easy to be caught off guard when people make such presumptions

ShastaTrinity · 27/01/2018 11:55

Could you clarify what any of this has to do with the OP shasta? Or with any recent posts.

I quote the OP There aren't many women that age in junior roles either. They are just very under represented in senior roles.

PramWanker · 27/01/2018 11:58

That's not an explanation as to what it has to do with the OP, since we have zero information about who has applied for senior roles.

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