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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The one in which Trump orders his staff to fire Mueller, and they give him the finger

986 replies

PerkingFaintly · 26/01/2018 12:14

Apparently this has already happened, back in July 2017. Shock

But the orange one try again...

Trump Ordered Mueller Fired, but Backed Off When White House Counsel Threatened to Quit
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html

Coverage by Maddow: twitter.com/maddow?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3142761-All-Trump-sees-is-green-All-we-see-is-a-traitorous-orange-menace-Who-is-right-Place-bets-now-Trump-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
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25
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 10:44

History never repeats itself, but it rhymes

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 10:54

www.mediaite.com/tv/carl-bernstein-bashes-enablers-putting-trump-over-country-mccabe-departure-is-monday-night-slaughter/

Carl Bernstein Bashes ‘Enablers’ Putting Trump Over Country: McCabe Departure is ‘Monday Night Slaughter’

To this end, Bernstein warned that America is heading towards a Constitutional crisis as long as Congress keeps trying to protect the president.

“If the facts are exonerating him, then he should be exonerated, but he is trying to suppress the investigation of the President of the United States,” Bernstein said. “If you had had Speaker Ryan and Mitch McConnell as the leaders during Watergate, I doubt seriously that that investigation would have gone forward and we would have seen what we’re seeing now…”

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 11:16

This is worth a look at. I would argue that Trump's tactics of projection and thereby muddying the waters isn't just limited to undermining law enforcement - it's been an integral part of how he operates and has been deployed time and time again.

www.lawfareblog.com/big-lies-law-enforcement

Big Lies, Law Enforcement, and the Defense of Rod Rosenstein

Natsku · 30/01/2018 11:31

OuaisMaisBon
I just can't believe that America, the people, would let it go to far before they decide enough is enough. It just can't happen, my mind can't imagine it.
No news on my brother yet, we're still waiting for the decision. The stress of waiting is doing a serious number on his health though :(

In amongst all this depressing news, I noticed you posting in the wee small hours. Has the baby arrived? Wondered if that’s what was keeping you up
Baby is still in my belly but keeping me up nevertheless with this damned pregnancy insomnia. 3 days overdue now, getting induced next week if nothing happens before. So done with this pregnancy!

Natsku · 30/01/2018 11:31

History never repeats itself, but it rhymes

I like that

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 11:44

Should've accredited it properly - it's a Mark Twain quotation Smile

Natsku · 30/01/2018 11:53

Tut tut, failing to give credit immediately Grin

Gumpendorf · 30/01/2018 11:55

'Sally Yates was fired one year ago today'. @kylegriffiths1

Perspective -it seems a lifetime ago. Sad

Like the Twain quote too, Pain. These things keep me sane.

Gumpendorf · 30/01/2018 12:00

@waltshaub

The only two words that matter in government right now:

twitter.com/PreetBharara/status/958207689070403584

Protect Mueller

lionheart · 30/01/2018 12:11

Natsku Flowers

I hope everything goes beautifully for you.

lionheart · 30/01/2018 12:11

john mclaughlin

Verified account

@jmclaughlinSAIS
7h7 hours ago
FISA warrants typically are big thick documents, 50-60 pages. If the Nunes memo about one is just 4 pages, you can bet it’s a carefully picked bowl of cherries. Made all the more dishonest by holding back the minority rebuttal memo. A real debate needs both. Someone fears that.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 12:17

What I find astounding that Nunes hasn't seen the original documents that the memo is based on Shock

Asha Rangappa‏Verified account
@AshaRangappa_
Scooby Doo Nunes has not read the underlying classified information that forms the basis of the memo under his name that his committee has voted to make public. (Yep, you can read that again!)

twitter.com/AC360/status/958149626795880451

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 12:29

It doesn't seem like it can be a year since she was fired and yet here we are still reeling from yet more purges.

This is an additional way to protest Trump, should any care for it:

www.toptrumptargets.uk/

lionheart · 30/01/2018 12:34

And the relentless attacks on the DoJ and law enforcement continue.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 12:42

New Details Alleged in Scheme to Make Millions Off First Border Wall in Texas

The latest lawsuit filing in Hidalgo County talks of kickback deals worked out over drinks and steak dinners.

www.propublica.org/article/godfrey-garza-jr-dannenbaum-engineering-texas-border-wall-kickback?utm_campaign=sprout&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1517286733

Natsku · 30/01/2018 13:14

Thanks Lionheart

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 13:15

Mark Knoller
@markknoller
WH confirms it has received the classified memo from House Intelligence Committee about alleged improper use of surveillance by FBI/DOJ in the investigation of Russia's meddling in the 2016 US pres election. Pres has 5 days to decide whether to declassify and make public.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 13:18

Axios: Schiff’s Office Receiving Calls And Death Threats Over Nunes Memo

talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/axios-adam-schiff-death-threats-nunes-memo?utm_content=buffer54841&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

OuaisMaisBon · 30/01/2018 13:51

OK, I am going to have to admit my complete ignorance here. I read the latest link about Schiff and the Nunes memo and I still have no idea whatsoever what it all means. (The contents of the memo and the effect of it being released and why it should/should not be released and why this has stuffed the Democrats up?) If there is someone less hard of understanding than I am here (not difficult) could you be kind enough to explain it to a simpleton?

AcrossthePond55 · 30/01/2018 15:11

Ouais The memo supposedly details the ways in which the FBI and/or the intelligence community violated ethics and/or the law to aid the Clinton campaign. At the very least, it supposedly shows that officials had a 'pro-Hillary' bias.

The 'counter allegation' (as it were) is that the memo has 'cherry-picked' bits and pieces and woven them into a 'conspiracy' but that if one looks at the actual documents they're taken from in their totality, one can see that the 'memo' is made out of 'pieces of truth' but do not tell the 'whole truth' because they don't include the facts behind the statements.

The problem is that 1-the documents on which this memo is based are by and large classified. Which means that no one will be able to form their own opinions because we won't be allowed to see the 'source material. 2- these documents contain sensitive intelligence information which may compromise the safety of personnel and/or intelligence operations.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 15:23

This is a good primer, though is a few days old:

DoJ warns Nunes against political stunts with classified material www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/doj-warns-nunes-against-political-stunts-with-classified-material-1145302595650

Also a handy guide:

www.newsweek.com/nunes-memo-donald-trump-intelligence-release-793571

Some more developments:

edition.cnn.com/2018/01/30/politics/paul-ryan-nunes-memo/index.html

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 15:24

Even Nunes didn't see the source material before the memo was written!

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 30/01/2018 15:25

Sally Yates
@SallyQYates
Despite relentless attacks on our democratic institutions and norms, our resilience has kept our country strong. But we will remain so only if we strive to live up to the American values that make us who we are. We’re better than this.

AcrossthePond55 · 30/01/2018 15:33

On another subject, some people have wondered about this compared to Watergate. I was in uni and remember it well, although looking back I realize that I saw it through somewhat immature eyes. I was very politically involved at that age and watched the hearings and read the papers.

The thing is, the Watergate break-in was about getting Nixon reelected, period. It wasn't about destroying our democracy for the benefit of the 1%. It wasn't about throwing out civil rights and the rule of law. It wasn't even about pushing through a really horrific GOP 'agenda' because at that time the parties tried to work together for the good of the country. There just wasn't this polarization and 'othering' along party lines.

The Watergate investigation and hearings were about punishing unethical and illegal behaviour, behaviour that both parties were horrified by. Yes, the GOP may have wanted a little more concrete proof than the Dems were satisfied with, but the GOP did 'turn' and Nixon resigned as a result. I can't see that happening now. The GOP is going to deny and defend, even if there was incontrovertible physical evidence and documentation of Scrotus' wrongdoings. They want to keep their power base and ability to get what they want too badly. It's exactly the same as (and sorry if this is triggering) a woman who denies her child is being abused so she can keep her comfortable lifestyle.

The big thing is that there was a Dem majority in both houses during Watergate. This is why the mid-terms are so important. If it took a Dem majority Congress to get real movement towards impeachment when there was a more ethical Congress, it will certainly take one now, when it's "what's in it for me" is the rule in the GOP.

DH and I are NOT watching the SotU address tonight. We just can't do it, although I know we should be thinking 'know thine enemy'. I'm afraid both of us would have an apoplexy. We will watch the rebuttal and Rachel Maddow afterwards.

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