Budgeting/financial abuse

[lookingforthecorkscrew]

DH is the earner in our family, I’m a SAHM.

Recently we got into a bit of financial trouble, mostly caused by living in a very expensive area, somewhat caused by DH not keeping track of his accounts. We’ve taken some big steps to tackle this, we’re even moving next month.

This morning I said I would pop out and get some soup for lunch. DH called up ‘budgeting starts tomorrow’ - it turns out that he wants me to literally write down every £1 I spend on everything, every day. Even though it comes out of the joint account and can be easily seen there.

Seeing as my wanton soup-buying habits are clearly not to blame for our current situation am I within my rights to refuse to do this? I spend less than £30 a week on sundries/coffees/bus fares.

It doesn't sound remotely like that and the OP seems to be behaving like nothing of the sort.

I'd humour him really, just so that at the end of the writing down period you can show him the hundreds of pounds he wastes on smoking.

I think given he shoulders the burden of earning and providing alone, he isn't being unreasonable.

I'd be telling my DH to make his soup rather than buy it if he were home all day and we'd had to tighten our belts.

You both agree to get £30 (or whatever) spending money for the week. This does not include shoes for the DC/ballet lessons or whatever as that's not your personal spending. Bank cards, credit cards etc stay at home. You spend £14 on bits and pieces, you've loads left over by the end of th week. He spends £30 on smokes and beer by Tuesday. Now who needs to write it down?

It does sound like you are the one who knows exactly what you are doing re your family finances, but it also sounds like he needs your help to prioritise his own spending and getting him on board is a good thing. I would agree to writing down everything for a set period of time (maybe just categories rather than individual items (so 'food' or 'lunches' rather than 'soup'), on the condition that he does exactly the same. Maybe for a week or two. Then go through all the spending together so you can both see exactly where you are spending money. He'll hopefully realise that it's him that's the problem. If he see's how big a proportion his cigarettes are, for example, it might shock him into doing something about that. And if he tries to give you a hard time over shoes, make it clear that you have every right to give him a hard time over his spending. If he has cigarette money, do you also have something equivalent in the budget that is a 'treat' for you? It's important that you do, so he can see that the smoking is a luxury and one of those things that should be cut back if he can't afford it.

But it's important that you have a method of budgeting/monitoring that you are both on board with. Ones he actually sees how onerous his method is, he is more likely to listen to a more sensible method from you.

I started writing down every spend when I was a student (late 80s) and really did have to count every penny. I found it an incredibly useful exercise. I started with a cash book, then when I got my first PC I moved to an excel spreadsheet that I still use to this day. I still monitor every transaction, grouped into categories and for us it's an essential part of family budgeting.

I think given he shoulders the burden of earning and providing alone, he isn't being unreasonable.

Except he doesn't. Wifework is not some valueless unknown and OP supports him by running the home and raising the children. They are a partnership and they both contribute.

If he had to pay OP for the work she does, he would be left with very little money to spend.

Just because he's the one that brings in the tangible assets doesn't mean he gets to decide how they are used.

I think given he shoulders the burden of earning and providing alone, he isn't being unreasonable.

fucking hell its the 1950s all over

His burden is such as he has twice upduffed his spouse, who is currently enabling him to work by caring for his child at the sacrifice of her own working potential. Whilst - literally - some not small percentage of their disposable income goes up in smoke.

Isn’t that about £40 a week on fags?

I can see it would be annoying as you know your spending isn't the problem but if he's never budgeted before he maybe doesn't know if his spending is high or low.

Think of it a giving him a reference point of to compare his own spending to, then when it transpires his is x3 more, it might hit home.

The bullying behavior and "good girl" comments are a completely different issue and 100% not on, but tackle them separately as an attitude problem not a budgeting one.

Also no way are his fags £6, I work in a shop and we don't sell much under £10.

I'd be tempted to play ball, at least for a while

You could make a note that you spent, say, £19.60 in Tesco, keep the receipts in date order and if he wants to see how that £19.60 was broken down, the information is easily available

But, only do this if he is also keeping track of his spending

Agree only if he will do it too. He will soon realise that you are not the problem.

I don’t know I think it’s ok. Budgeting and finances can be very stressful and it’s hard to work out what works and what doesn’t. I would carry on with it and see if it works

This is far from financial abuse.

I'd go with it for a few weeks if only to show him he is spending more on cigarettes than food.

I begged DH three years ago, in tears, to seriously consider our family moving to an area with cheaper accommodation and better quality of life for DCs. He refused point blank, citing all my suggestions as ‘miserable dead-end places’ where he would ‘go mad’ with no independent book shops, craft beer emporiums to keep him happy. His parents also tried to convince him too, he said it was unnecessary. I knew we’d end up here.

Luckily last year I suggested a place to move to that he didn’t hate, and we’re moving next month. I found our house, it’s perfect and has an office for him to work from. Our rent will reduce by £600 pmth. He will only need to commute 1-2 days a week, at most. We can dig ourselves out of this, and I have a very good grasp on how we’ll do it.

Any suggestion that I’m behaving like a sulky child I reject outright - every practical solution to this problem has come at my suggestion. All DH seems to do is panic and suggest logging every expenditure. I’m dealing with him too, and pregnancy, and a kid with emerging complex additional needs.

You are clearly the only financially responsible person and yes, in those circumstances, especially the latest update I would be RAGING at the suggestion that you need to curb your frivolous expenditure on basic necessities.

However, as you have, it seems, repeatedly sorted it all out for him I think the log of spends is a brilliant way for him to understand the root of the problem. I'm sure his suggestion comes from panic and denial rather than abuse. I would use it to demonstrate your point that it ain't you, it's him. (see pp about a spreadsheet, an agreed date for reviewing and analysing etc).

You haven't mentioned his attitude to his smoking.

I did this for myself for a month, and I was shocked. I thought I spent about £15 a week on magazines/coffee/the odd treat, when I wrote it down it ended up being closer to £25 per week. It's much more difficult to budget if you don't know exactly what you are both spending at the moment.

Your £30 could easily be £40, almost what he's spending on cigs.

He's maybe panicking because of the new baby too. You could sit down together and work out a plan - meal planning, setting a reasonable budget etc.

My dh and I wrote down our expenses for years to the penny. Used a program called Quicken. It made for some interesting revelations and fun pie charts.
Currently our bank does it for us, once you have a good data base it is reassuring to see...I guess if you use it as a learning tool.
Talk about it and let him know how you feel; resentful belittled etc and work through that.

• somewhat caused by DH not keeping track of his accounts.
• I spend less than £30 a week on sundries/coffees/bus fares.
• And TBH he’s never budgeted before, I have. I am perfectly capable of sticking within a limit without keeping a pocket book.
• Haha! It would be! He smokes, for one.
• if I hadn’t sat with his books and a calculator all afternoon on Saturday he would have been utterly ignorant about our exact financial situation and been blindly panicking about going ‘bust’.
• but nevertheless I sorted it while he hid in the living room playing cricket on his phone.
• As I said before, I’ve seen our budget and I know that this is very affordable for us.

You really come across as if you blame him for everything. His cigs/beer are terrible but your coffees/sundries? are fine. You're the one who's excellent at budgeting while he is rubbish. You assume he wont follow through when you haven't even tried.

If he has gone on any budgeting site then the first thing they will tell you to do it get a grip on where the money is currently going by writing every single thing down.

I don’t blame him for everything, I just don’t think he’s in a position to be able to quiz me about soup.

He's being an arse.

But I'd compromise by using the YNAB (you need a budget) app.

It has a first months free trial and the way it works is you set up a budget with money you have, allocate it, then record every spend as you go along. So it wouldn't work if he wasn't also writing down '6£ packet of cigarettes' every time. If you end up spending £30 on shoes which you hadn't planned, you decide which category it comes out of instead.

It sounds absolutely perfect for dealing with him- forcing him to confront exactly how much he spends on cigarettes, and make a decision every single time about what he'll forego to have that. At the same time it doesn't sound more onerous than what you're already doing but after a month you'll have proof in black and white.

I'm v sensible but I learned a lot about my spending habits using it.

DH and I do this. It's very helpful. Helps us both to recognise areas where we've slipped into overspending or could cut back.

Ugh, he really is being a patronising arse. I can totally see why he is getting under your skin. Agree about the projecting his own anxiety guilt but really he needs to stop. It isn't a terrible idea to write down all expenditure every now and then to see what's what, but most people who are good at budgeting can manage perfectly well without that. People like your DH are the ones who need to learn this skill however!

How you get him to take responsibility and stop unfairly sharing out the blame, well, that is another thing. His thinking is quite unbalanced and one extreme to the other - not unusual for MH problems but a bloody pain to live with. He needs to see his faults as his alone and respect you for your positive attributes. It is a bit of an 'I told you so' situation, and maybe he needs to hear it loud and clear. Do you think couples counselling would give you an opportunity to say that in an environment where you can have a referee?

If you agree to the pocket book then he has to stick to it religiously too no double standards.

Also, I have to say not accepting responsibility for the consequences of his own unwise actions (against the advice of the OP and parents), now implicating the OP in overspending when she doesn't, and expecting the OP to monitor every penny yet not doing the same himself, is actually bordering on the abusive. Certainly it is completely unreasonable and unjustifiable.