to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

[churchoflego]

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

those poor kids in America were horrifically abused by a man and a woman. On that basis, we are all despicable as we all belong to one of those groups.

When did anyone say that individual women cannot commit acts of violence? There is nothing inherent about being a woman that means we cannot commit vile acts of violence. And yet, women don't commit anywhere close to the amount of violence as men.

Willfully ignoring this mean that nothing can be done about it.

Feminists are fully aware that NOT ALL MEN are bad, but enough of you are so that there is a social problem, a really fucking huge patriarchal problem. Bleating about man hate when you should be working on straightening out your fellow men rather than crying about how mean we are to you, will only get you laughed at by those of us who are tired of hearing it.

Toughen up sunshine, it's going to be a rough ride until you smash toxic masculinity to smithereens. The rest of us non men have been dealing with it since forever.

JassyRadlett oh come on, we all know feminism is all about hating men, and women wanting to have more rights than men. We know that because some men say so, so no need to listen to what actual feminists say on the topic....

there is far, far more hatred of women in this world.

Indeed. And the biggest perpetrator currently inhabits the White House. The most powerful individual on earth. I could weep.

Whenever I’m out with my toddler and he’s playing up I get strangers telling me ‘oh don’t worry, he’s a boy’ I do worry because he’s a boy. He has to be accountable for his actions just as much as any girl. That’s not hate that’s actual equality.

What's really depressing is that some people can't tell the difference between class analysis and hate. Men do not commit more violent crimes because of some innate biological trait inherent in all men, but because our horrible fucking toxic culture still celebrates violence as ultra masculine, because we live in a porn culture that dehumanises women, and because they can

Indeed.

I'd be amazed if women commit more fraud than men - is that true?

No, but most women in prison are there for fraud and avoiding fines. Where most men who are in prison it is for violence. I think the stats have been muddled up a bit to try and prove a point.

However the sort of class analysis I see going on renders invisible the majority of male victims of male violence,

I don't ignore male victims of male violence. I reckon male violence is a huge issue in general, whoever is on the receiving end of it. But its still...male violence.

I don't think that's true at all - men as a sex do commit violent crimes at an astonishing rate and that's a fact.

I have some wonderful men around me including a son. Perhaps instead of getting irate at people telling the truth, teach your boys about love, kindness, respect. I plan to.

What they say? Listen, acknowledge, condemn. Don’t get all caught up in ‘most men are great!’ stuff, even if most men are, because it obscures the problem - the vast number of women who have been groped, catcalled, discriminated against at work, stalked, had men get hostile when their advances were rejected, been subjected to unwanted sexual behaviours, been abused, raped, killed. DH’s view was that the only reasonable response is condemnation. That is fine to say ‘that’s not how decent people/decent men behave’, but not ‘hey, most of us are lovely!’ I thought that was a subtle distinction.

My husbands reaction was extremely similar. He was rather unpopular with his friends for a while actually while all of that was coming out as they were commenting on womens posts with 'NAMALT' and such or 'what about male victims' and he was calling them out on it. This is whats needed IMO, more men to stand up and call the bullshit out for what it is.

YABU.

Most women I know have no hatred for men and boys.

Sorry, that was meant to quote the bit about metoo also. Not sure how I missed that off

It's ironic that calling out male violence and pointing out that the majority of violent acts/DV/rape/sexual assault is perpetrated by males is seen as "hating on men and boys", but it's fine to hate women as long as you dress up your statements as "banter" or "locker room talk".

We exist in a culture of "boys will be boys" and that is hammered home from the very start with rough behaviour being excused in boys and discouraged in girls, clothing in shops saying "boys will be boys" and telling girls to be "pretty" and "kind". That continues through life. Small things add up - people saying that swearing, tattoos, drinking etc is acceptable for men but "uncouth" for women; the whataboutery; the inability to draw attention to the statistics regarding male violence without hearing "but women commit crimes too, but men are victims too".

There is no "man/boy hate". There is a slowly-growing acknowledgement of the privilege men have enjoyed for a long time, and a rising tide of opposition to this privilege. It's only because they aren't used to being called out on it that they consider it hatred.

hand raised high in the air
Oo oo oo Bertrand is the answer virtually none?

Call out what bullshit vicxy?

How is NAMALT not a reasonable arguement? Do you also make assumptions about Muslims, black people and women as classes?

Your husband sounds like a browbeaten puppet yet somehow you seem proud. That's confusing.

How is NAMALT not a reasonable arguement?

On what planet is it an argument at all?

No-one thinks that all men are like that. No-one thinks "violence is disproportionately committed by men, so ALL men are violent". We don't need to be told "not all men are like that", it's a bullshit meaningless response designed to shut us up so we don't keep pointing out the uncomfortable truth.

It's pointing out the bleeding obvious in a way designed to say "well not every man is like that and you're making me uncomfortable by talking about it so stop". Arguments are designed to drive forward discussion and bring different viewpoints to the table; NAMALT is designed to stop women talking about the elephant in the room.

How is NAMALT not a reasonable arguement? Do you also make assumptions about Muslims, black people and women as classes?

Because replying to a post about male violence with NAMALT you are not addressing the problem of the violent male. You are also starting a new discussion about violent females. You are ignoring the issue at hand for your own agenda.

I don’t know what you mean by assumptions. What assumptions?

IguessImWinning how is "not all men" any kind of arguement? If we say the vast majority of violent crime is committed by men (a fact), how does shouting "but not all men" help anything? Does it mean those crimes didn't really happen? Does it mean we don't really have a problem with male violence because some men are nice?

I just don't see how it's remotely helpful. We already know it's not all men, stating the obvious as some kind of counter argument (why do you feel the need to even argue against facts?) is pretty weak.

Your husband sounds like a browbeaten puppet yet somehow you seem proud. That's confusing.

A man who stands up against his friends is browbeaten? Ok then, I suppose you dialled that back from pussywhipped

It’s interesting too how a man who stands up for women is considered by some as ‘a browbeaten puppet’ (ie insulted) yet it’s feminists who hate men. Have a google of ‘toxic masculinity’ and see if you recognise yourself in anything that comes up IguessImwinning

Your husband sounds like a browbeaten puppet yet somehow you seem proud. That's confusing.

What a horrible, patronising comment. He was prepared to speak out against his mates, that hardly sounds 'browbeaten' to me. My DH would say the same.

This whole thread title was goady imo.

Your husband sounds like a browbeaten puppet yet somehow you seem proud. That's confusing

What an odd take on a guy willing to call out his friends bullshit.

How is NAMALT not a reasonable arguement? Do you also make assumptions about Muslims, black people and women as classes?

Honestly, if Muslims committed 98% of all terrorism then yes I would. I believe I have made this point before on here. I am not willing to pretend that male violence is not a fucking huge problem. Sorry.

Vicxy I'd be proud of having a "browbeaten puppet" as a husband. He clearly can think past his own ego.

No-one thinks that all men are like that. No-one thinks "violence is disproportionately committed by men, so ALL men are violent". We don't need to be told "not all men are like that", it's a bullshit meaningless response designed to shut us up so we don't keep pointing out the uncomfortable truth.

Well said. NAMALT is a ridiculous reponse. And luckily some men see this too and are willing to call it out. But of course, this somehow means they are browbeaten

Your husband sounds like a browbeaten puppet yet somehow you seem proud

Sounds like my impression of a man

He doesnt seem like a browbeaten puppet at all

It actually always seems to be non feminists who have the lowest opinion of men on here, to be honest. All the stereotyping of boys and men as useless soap dodging incompetents doesn't come from feminists!

This is so very true, it leads to women infantilising men and doing everything for them. I remember one husband who didn't even know what to do with an egg that had been boiled.