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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

710 replies

churchoflego · 24/01/2018 09:55

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2018 22:48

mental I haven’t quoted a single fact on this thread that I haven’t backed up with evidence. Could I please see your evidence for this comment? I linked to the ONS survey for Domestic Violence earlier so I know it’s not from that. Very interested to see where this info comes from. Thanks.

yes, i agree. and they forget that emotional and verbal abuse in a relationship is also a form of domestic violence and is probably not as gendered as sexual or physical violence is. do not forget that in child abuse cases when it comes to emotional and verbal abuse the mothers are statistically just as bad as the fathers. so it is likely that in an adult couple that a woman can be just as spiteful with her words and emotional cruelty as a man can.

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 22:49

idontdowindows maybe. i guess i was comig from an angle where i was thinking if an adult male stranger pulled your pants down, as a female (of any age) you might be like "oh no he is going to rape me" and feel terrified and traumatised and brutalised, a little girl who gets pantsed at school by a boy will think "oh no, i don't like that. that feels icky." But they will probably not be fearing for their lives. i say probably, because as you said, there are alway sexceptions and i do not doubt some poor kids are violated in a horrific way by other kids. eg jamie bulger and that case near doncaster a few years back...i am just saying the level of harm will be different in the majority of cases.

OnTheList · 27/01/2018 22:49

i think it is sad that it is assumed that young boys are neccessaily going to turn out to be chauvanists and rapists. some will, but not all. not even the majority will.
Who on earth assumes that?!

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 22:52

mental

You really sound like you are trying to be very fair in your posts

I may not agree with you but obviously you are entitled to your opinion

But can i just point out that its not up to any of us to decide what the level of harm is

What might affect you dreadfully might not me and vice versa

Something could play on a childs mind for years even if on the surface it didnt 'damage' them

Idontdowindows · 27/01/2018 22:53

i am just saying the level of harm will be different in the majority of cases.

And I am saying we should try to elminate harm and not invite it. (Apart from the fact that I don't agree that this is not so bad.)

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 22:56

idontdowindows as a young girl it was common for kids to explore each others' bodies. none of us grew up feeling violated. a bit annoyed or embarassed when our knickers were yanked off in the school playground or when we were called sexual names, but not viollated and we all turned out fine. there was one girl who got forcibly pantsed and the kids (boys and girls- they held her down)were quite nasty about it making her show bits of herself and threatening her when she wouln't but that involved bullying and coercion, so not the norm. am sure even she would not compare it to a rape though or anyhting like being groped by a work colleague.

Pumper well, i was speculating reagrding the DV amongst adults, the child abuse thing was from an article i read a long time ago, can;'t remember the source. if you look at "But We Took You to Stately Homes" thread in Relationships there seem to be many emotionally abusive mothers, probably more than fathers, but i admit i have not visited that thread for a long time. yes, i joined recently but i am a long time luker type

Idontdowindows · 27/01/2018 22:58

Sorry @mentalfluid I don't talk to MRAs with an agenda to vilify women. Buhbye.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 22:59

Fuck me what school did mental go to

Sounds dreadful

Thats not normal at all

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 23:00

Im beginning to wonder myself now idont

Note to self...stop giving people the benefit of the doubt

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:01

Rufus It was a normal school but there was a lot of bullying there....i would not call it sexual abuse but definitely bullying. i hated it there.... i am ashamed i was involved in that incident with the girl.

Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2018 23:02

mental with respect then, if you don’t have figures to back up your claim, why are you trying to make out women are just as bad as (or worse than) men? They aren’t.

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:03

Rufus and IdontdoWindows you do have to remember this was a long time ago though and there was little awareness of bullying. i think childline was set up by then but very few people talked of using it....and most of us were bullied in some way or another, so we were all equally victimised. it is sad really.

sorry if my post upset you both....

Idontdowindows · 27/01/2018 23:04

They're using typical MRA soundbites @Rufus so it's clear what their agenda was. And they never have anything to back up their claims.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 23:05

It doesn't upset me

It just sounds fucking awful

Im 48 and it certainly didnt happen on the level you are describing in my school or any ive heard of

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:05

Pumper i am not trying to make out women are as bad as men. i was pointing out that although in terms of physical violence men are worse, verbal and mental cruelty is not gendered like physical violence is and some of our domestic violecne stats probably include emotional and mental cruelty too.

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:07

Rufus maybe my school was weird then. the teachers were kind of odd anyway...but like i said, we were all bullied really at some stage or another...nowadays bullying is still rife in schools but some kids are always victims and the others seem to escape and be top dogs in the pecking order. i think in my school all of us could be mean to one another sometimes

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:08

Rufus i was teased a lot myself, so i can understand how that girl must have felt, in hindsight.

Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2018 23:08

mental but you can’t point that out because you’ve no idea if it’s true, you haven’t got any evidence.

‘I am not trying to make out women are as bad as men’

many emotionally abusive mothers, probably more than fathers,

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:10

Rufus when that thing happened to the girl though, it was taken very seriously and parents were involved. when i was being teased and excluded every day and developing serious low self esteem issues, the teachers did nothing at all.....

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:11

Pumper well, fair enough. no solid evidence. but also no solid evidence to prove that women are less abusive mentally....less abusive physically though i agree. i think sexual and physical violence is gendered, definitely.

ForestDad · 27/01/2018 23:12

Sorry can't do the quotey thing.
Rufus:
Most people do look at the victims, no one has ever ever said that its just women that are hurt by men.
Good, but on male-dominated forums this issue is not discussed at all.

the correct comment to 'some men can be violent' is 'yes some men are'.

In the same way as as saying "yes, some men are and the victims are likely to be men" is also correct. I don't agree that there is only one "correct" reply to a comment, it would get boring quickly don't you think?

The fact that men are often the victims does not negate the statement 'most violence is caused by men'.
Agree, I am not trying to negate that in any way. As I have said in my posts.

Windows: Forestdad you want us to ignore the FACT that violence is virtually exclusively commited by MEN so as not to alienate MEN?
No, by posting referenced facts I was trying to show some, not ignore them.

Holy shit. How about you start admonishing MEN for committing the violence instead of women for naming it eh?
OK, to all the violent men reading this: "stop it now". I don't know any violent men so I'm not sure if they often read parenting forums!
Have I admonished anyone for naming it? I don't think I have.

Pumper
ForestDad I’m going to assume from your nickname that you’re male.
Yes
Do you class yourself in the same category at these men who are commiting acts of violence?
No
If not, why would you be offended at someone pointing out that most acts of violence are committed by men?
I'm not offended by it, just trying to make a wider point within the subject and as often happens on here then gets shouted at by people who don't want to take a wider look at the whole picture.

And, like a PP, why would you come onto a thread about male violence, with so many facts and discussions, and NOT say ‘that’s horrific, here’s what I do, as a man, to try and stop this’? Why would you immediately try to minimise the numbers, instead of facing the facts and help combat it?
I posted the facts in my first post. That's what I did!!! 395 men and 175 women to year end Mar 16, the latest figures available.
It is horrific and affects many people's lives. In the grand scheme of things though, poor healthcare and accidents affect far more people than violence. Luckily in the UK we are not affected by war, gang violence, ethnic cleansing etc. so there are relatively few deaths caused by violence. If one wanted to reduce the number of people dying because of others' actions, one could focus effort elsewhere and have a greater impact.
In my personal life I have done what I can at various times to have a positive impact on the world and like most men have ben the victim of physical intimidation and violence in the past.

Through volunteering I have talked with people who are victims of violence and potentially those who are perpetrators. I'm not an expert but I do at least understand a little of the problems in this area.

I absolutely disagree that you picked those stats because they were most relevant - you picked them because you disagreed (wrongly) with my ‘113 women killed in 2016’ comment and you wanted to minimise that. Why?
You can disagree with my what I was thinking an hour or so ago to your heart's content, doesn't change it. I wasn't trying to minimise it, but just including one gender's victimhood is less than half the story if you are talking about male violence, as you have pointed out yourself.

I have not seen a single poster on here suggesting that male violence only affects females. I can see however, that posters would love to think that’s true so we can all indulge in a bit of feminist bashing instead of concentrating on the real issue - male violence.
See your sentence immediately above this one... Why do I keep seeing this 113 figure then, not the number of PEOPLE killed by men?

Idontdowindows · 27/01/2018 23:16

OK, to all the violent men reading this: "stop it now".

In other words: "nah, I cannot be arsed to talk to men, I'm just going to admonish the women who name the problem some more.

as often happens on here then gets shouted at by people who don't want to take a wider look at the whole picture.

The whole picture is that MEN AS A CLASS commit VIRTUALLY ALL violence on this planet.

You are trying to detract from that, for whatever reasons you have.

You are part of the problem.

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 23:20

Pumper i am sure ForestDad is not responsible for the acts of those nasty men. those individual men and the fathers who raised (or maybe didn't) raise them are responsible.... do not put a burden on an innocent non violent man's shoulder.

part of the problem? a non violent man like Forest Is part of the problem how? i am white. and non racist. i do not consider it my responsibility to end racism. that is the racists' responsibility.

FrancinePefko · 27/01/2018 23:21

What specifically do you mean by "class" in this context?
Could Jews be a "class"? Could black people? Could Muslims? Could menopausal women?

ForestDad · 27/01/2018 23:22

Windows; OK so what because I'm a man I should seek out some violent ones and get them to change? Otherwise I'm part of the problem? WTF? I've got to the age I am by avoiding conflict and people who wish me harm thanks.
You can shout that men commit most violence on the planet as much as you like in this chamber, and it will echo. What do YOU do to stop it?