to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

[churchoflego]

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

Like I said before:

Saying: "most violence is committed by males" is NOT the same as saying "all males commit violence".

And for safety, women must assume that all males have the potential to be sex offenders. It's called Schrodinger's Rapist. A really good read.

Rufustherenegade ok, maybe i was using a bit of hyperbole there but i have seen threads on here that seem to imply girls are precious sensitive things and boys are naturally bullies who are more confident etc...

also if you see the thread about changing rooms in swimming pools some people were talking about worrying about their daughter;s "safety" if a boy of 9 was in there!!! as if a 9 year old boy can do anything seriously sexual to a child the same age! they would do unkind or rude things like point and giggle at a girl but nothing like "assault"

as if a 9 year old boy can do anything seriously sexual to a child the same age! they would do unkind or rude things like point and giggle at a girl but nothing like "assault"

1. they can and have done
2. why on earth would a girl have to be subjected to a boy pointing and giggling at her while she is changing?

idontdowindows all adult males, maybe. which is why they must be taught to respect women. then they won't grow up to be sex offenders.

Thanks for the link Pumper.
For the others further up I didn't say it wasn't male violence, just that men are also affected by it and are statistically much more likely to be a victim of homicide than women.

idontdowindows a girl should not have to put up with pointing and giggling, no. but it goes both ways at that age. girls do it to boys. they tease boys, pull their trousers down etc....both sexes at age 9 or so can play games like that. at that age the relationship is equal between boys and girls

idontdowindows i just think we should not start demonising children who are too young to know what they are doing. but we can start teaching boys that age to start respecting girls, yes. and i think by age 9 both girls and boys need to stop pulling down trousers and giggling at bits. because puberty comes early these days and it is not nice to make kids self conscious.... but to class it alongside violence and rape is wrong. sorry. i have been sexually assaulted as a child and teenager by adult perpetrators and it is serious nasty stuff. those men were adults and knew what they were doing.

forest

I dont think anyone has said that men are not the victims of violence

Just that some men can be violent

Its seems a bit of a pointless 'fact'

Poster A some men are violent

Poster B men are victims of violence as well

Poster A

mental

S'ok

ForestDad you’ve also quoted the wrong stats from your link, you’ve only quoted the number of people who were killed by a partner or ex partner. Here’s the correct figures from your report:

In the year ending March 2016, around 7 in 10 homicide victims were male (69%, 395 victims) and 3 in 10 were female (31%, 175 victims). This is similar to the sex of victims over the last decade, with the exception of the previous 2 years, when 64% to 65% of victims were male.

The number of male victims of homicide (395) increased 21% from 327 in the previous year, ending a generally downward trend. In contrast, the number of female homicide victims decreased slightly, from 186 to 175 victims (a 6% decrease), continuing the longer-term gradual downward trend (Figure 2.2).

And, for info, at the bottom of the report you linked to (and no doubt read before trying to persuade us that we were exaggerating)

For those suspects where proceedings had concluded, 91% were male (318 suspects) and 9% were female (33 suspects).

Your link also deals only with homocide, not violence - I linked earlier to the ONS stats on violence and sexual violence if you’re interested in having a look at those.

all adult males,

no, we already have several cases of very young boys (i.e. under 13) performing sexual acts on girls or forcing girls to perform sexual acts on them. Simply because a boy is young does not mean he is safe.

at that age the relationship is equal between boys and girls

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL no. No, sorry, but it has been very clearly shown that girls are disadvantaged and boys are priviliged from the age of THREE.

At nine, boys have had 6 years of indulgence and "boys will be boys" already and girls have had 6 years of "keeping the peace" and "being nice".

And just because a girl may at some point pull down a boy's pants in public, does not mean girlS should be subjected to boys shaming their bodies in changing rooms.

idontdowindows well, i believe 10 or 11 year old boys from backgrounds of sexual abuse like in the Bulger case might well be capable of performing sexual acts on girls the same age i think we are talking a small minority so we need ot be careful of generalisations. yes, it happens but not on a mass scale like adults sexual harassing women and girls....nearly all women i know have been sexually abused by adult males either as adults or as girls but you can't say nearly all girls have been sexually abused by young boys. if they did a #metoo for child on child sexual assault i can imagine it would be one in 20 or something not one in 5.

Pumper, I think that my post and yours both accurately reflect the stats from the link. I picked the stats deliberately, because there is a lot of chat on here about DV leading to homicide and it seemed most relevant.
Rufus, it is relevant who are the victims because when it is classed as "male violence" without really looking at all the victims, it can be construed as purely misogynistic. The reality is that men are more likely to be murdered (almost certainly by other men granted) than women.
So when people are talking about the "problem with men" or using similar language from a purely woman's/feminist perspective, they are; a) ignoring a large number of the victims and therefore impact,
b) at risk of alienating the men who are non-violent and the people they know who don't recognise the "male violence" monster.

idontdowindows i do agree with you that the boys will be boys thing happens a lot still. i do agree that boys are indulged. what i mean by equal is that when an adult abuses a child, an adult is in a stronger position over the child. when a child sexually abuses another child there i snot the same power play. i am not saying it is nice to be sexually assualted by another child but it is not an everyday occurence like the #metoo type stories.... women and girls every day have the fear of being abused by adult males. very few little girls go to school or to to the playground with a sense that the boys will cause them sexual harm.

i am not saying because it is rare that it is ok. it is still horrific and bad. i just do not think it justfies demonising boys.

Yes, it happens but not on a mass scale like adults sexual harassing women and girls.

And because it happens, and because we still cannot, unfortunately, tell by someone's face who is, and who is not, changing rooms and other intimate spaces should remain strictly sex-segregated, precisely to avoid risk to young girls.

when a child sexually abuses another child there i snot the same power play.

but there is. Even at that very young age, boys will have had years of prioritising and indulgence behind them, and girls will already have been groomed to accept abuse.

it is relevant who are the victims because when it is classed as "male violence" without really looking at all the victims, it can be construed as purely misogynistic

Most people do look at the victims, no one has ever ever said that its just women that are hurt by men

the correct comment to 'some men can be violent' is 'yes some men are'

The fact that men are often the victims does not negate the statement 'most violence is caused by men'

Forestdad you want us to ignore the FACT that violence is virtually exclusively commited by MEN so as not to alienate MEN?

Holy shit. How about you start admonishing MEN for committing the violence instead of women for naming it eh?

ForestDad yes, i agree. and they forget that emotional and verbal abuse in a relationship is also a form of domestic violence and is probably not as gendered as sexual or physical violence is. do not forget that in child abuse cases when it comes to emotional and verbal abuse the mothers are statistically just as bad as the fathers. so it is likely that in an adult couple that a woman can be just as spiteful with her words and emotional cruelty as a man can.

ForestDad I’m going to assume from your nickname that you’re male. Do you class yourself in the same category at these men who are commiting acts of violence? If not, why would you be offended at someone pointing out that most acts of violence are committed by men?

And, like a PP, why would you come onto a thread about male violence, with so many facts and discussions, and NOT say ‘that’s horrific, here’s what I do, as a man, to try and stop this’? Why would you immediately try to minimise the numbers, instead of facing the facts and help combat it?

I absolutely disagree that you picked those stats because they were most relevant - you picked them because you disagreed (wrongly) with my ‘113 women killed in 2016’ comment and you wanted to minimise that. Why?

I have not seen a single poster on here suggesting that male violence only affects females. I can see however, that posters would love to think that’s true so we can all indulge in a bit of feminist bashing instead of concentrating on the real issue - male violence.

I think most of us can recite a personal story about a male friend or acquaintance that has been attacked by other male or males

Ive certainly got a few

I worry about my boy in night clubs, ill worry about my girl and number 2 son as well

Night clubs and on the streets obviously

Agree with pumper

Ironically i am mumsnetting

While watching murder on the orient express

And reading a book about Lizzie Borden

I know who dunnit in the film

And in the book