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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

710 replies

churchoflego · 24/01/2018 09:55

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

OP posts:
FrancinePefko · 27/01/2018 19:11

Bertrand
As a percentage, how many of the convicted child grooming convictions of the last 15 years were from white skinned taxi drivers?

BTW I am NOT a Britain First or anything like that. I am just wondering why it is acceptable to say men as a class when you would rightly ge vilified for saying xyz as class

KOKOagainandagain · 27/01/2018 19:14

This discussion is erasing class distinctions.

Class is not equal to group.

Statistically there are gender CATEGORIES not CLASSES.

A working class woman is likely to share more similar economic and social interests with a working class man rather than an upper class woman.

FrancinePefko · 27/01/2018 19:17

2016, that 78% of violent crimes were committed by men, that 98% of sex crimes were committed by men

What percentage of knife crimes in London are committed by Afro-Caribbean youths?

Would it be acceptable to start saying Afro-Caribbean youths as a class?

Would it help?

Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2018 19:18

As a percentage, how many of the convicted child grooming convictions of the last 15 years were from white skinned taxi drivers?

I don’t know the answer to this, or what point you’re trying to make. What percentage is it? What percentage of the people convicted were male? I bet it’s higher than any race.

FrancinePefko · 27/01/2018 19:19

KeepOnKeepingOn1
Class is not equal to group
You've explained what it is isn't. Thanks.

What is it?

Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2018 19:21

Would it be acceptable to start saying Afro-Caribbean youths as a class?

Would it help?

It would yes, if it was Afro-Caribbean youths who were overwhelmingly committing a crime against one particular group. It would be helpful to use that fact to look at the reasons for that fact’s exsistance.

I’m not sure how many times you want me to say this.

Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2018 19:22

Could you answer this now Francine?

You say ‘despicable’ - yet your contribution to this thread was to ignore the fact that 113 women were killed by men in 2016, that 78% of violent crimes were committed by men, that 98% of sex crimes were committed by men. Why is using ‘men as a class’ worthy of comment by you, but not the totally horrific facts we have on male violence?

BertrandRussell · 27/01/2018 19:28

"Would it be acceptable to start saying Afro-Caribbean youths as a class?

Would it help?"

If there was a crime that was committed overwhelming by that type of person then yes, it help.

Lizzie48 · 27/01/2018 19:35

*As a percentage, how many of the convicted child grooming convictions of the last 15 years were from white skinned taxi drivers?

I don’t know the answer to this, or what point you’re trying to make. What percentage is it? What percentage of the people convicted were male? I bet it’s higher than any race.*

Definitely, sexual crimes are overwhelmingly male. Bringing race into sexual crimes isn't helpful imo, it's common to men from all races, sadly.

April229 · 27/01/2018 19:41

Hmmmm. Maybe I’m BU but I’m sick of woman and girls being raped and sexually harassed.

Also sick of reading that two woman die per week in the UK from domestic violence. But no, you’re right, men are having a really tough time. Hopefully the gender pay gap and the low conviction for rape will be of some comfort......

No one is saying this problem is created by all men, its the minority for sure, but taken as a national / global picture, it is recognised that woman as a whole face discrimination, it should be talked about, even if offends parents of boys.

Sorry you were bullied by females, but honestly I would take that over being raped by a man. I really struggle to see how you can put them on a par.

Perhaps if we all work together to resolve these issues we won’t have to talk about them anymore.

Originalfoogirl · 27/01/2018 19:58

Your boys automatically have a privilege our girls don't have. I don't hate them for that but I hate our society for giving it to them.

It's simple really. Raise your boys to be aware of it, to understand why it is a problem and to live their lives in a way that helps to address their awareness.

We spend our time listening to our girls being called weak, stupid and watching them being judged on their appearance. The difference for us is, those things will last a lifetime whereas boys only "stink" for a few years in primary school.

So, instead of getting arsey with one parent doing something questionable, talk to your boys about why this apparent hatred is there and what he can do to help change society for the future.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 20:39

so instead of saying men as a class are violent

francine would rather we said statistically men are more violent

So i could say

Statistically afro Caribbean youth are more likely to commit knife crimes

That would be right wouldnt it

madeyemoodysmum · 27/01/2018 20:54

Me too. The mums at the school gates go on about our local girls school like it's the bloody holy grail of schools but I notice it's only the mums of girls that say these things
The mums of mixed sins are more open minded.

Drives me Bonkers.

madeyemoodysmum · 27/01/2018 20:55

Mixed sibs. Not sins Grin

ForestDad · 27/01/2018 21:16

Where is the 113/year victims from? Home Office figures to year ending Mar 16 for female victims is 77. (Equivalent male victims were 28 for same period). So as a woman you are almost 3x as likely to be killed by a partner/ex partner than a man. Tragic but statistically a pretty small number, you are more likely to die at work or during transportation.
Also although there is a lot of talk about male violence, and it's a fact that most violent crimes are committed by men, they are also more likely to be a victim of murder by a factor of almost 3x. (395 vs 175).

Stats from here: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/homicide#how-are-victims-and-suspects-related

Idontdowindows · 27/01/2018 21:19

We're not talking about who is most likely to be victims.

We are talking about who is most likely to be a perpetrator.

And those male victims you're dragging in here are victims of MALE violence. NOT female violence.

Male violence as a whole is a problem.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 21:34

What idontdo said

pallisers · 27/01/2018 21:36

Would it be acceptable to start saying Afro-Caribbean youths as a class?

Would it help?

well if it were true then facing facts certainly would help. You could look figure out if it is a random statistic or significant and consistent.
If significant and consistent then you could look at why afro-carribbean youths were using knives, do some outreach within their communities and ask what was going on that made these youths want to commit this particular crime. It would allow you to put the large part of what will be limited resources into figuring out what is going wrong with this particular segment of society and stopping it happening.

Pretending that the incidence of the crime was the same for all youths mightn't get you very far, waste your resources on irrelevant approaches and it is unfair to the actual perpetrators who may have a complex yet soluble set of issues driving them to violence as well as being deeply unfair to the hapless victims of their violence.

Originalfoogirl · 27/01/2018 21:46

I am preparing them to expect the same things and same choices than their brothers, and to get the same opportunities.

Well that's just crazy. And are you preparing your boys that they have to play their part in ensuring she does?

You can prepare her to expect them all you like, every single statistic on equality will show she is likely not to get them. If she does it is because she has had to work harder and smarter just to be considered as good as them.

I am raising our girl to know she is entitled to equality despite her gender and her disability. But I am also raising her to know there are many who will try hard to deny it to her and helping her learn how to fight that. To do anything else is to do her a great disservice.

OnTheList · 27/01/2018 21:48

Also although there is a lot of talk about male violence, and it's a fact that most violent crimes are committed by men, they are also more likely to be a victim of murder by a factor of almost 3x. (395 vs 175).

Yes, overwhelmingly murdered by other men. So still..male violence.

pallisers · 27/01/2018 21:50

Yes, overwhelmingly murdered by other men. So still..male violence.

indeed. I talk to my son about violence/being vulnerable/what to do if attacked too - not just my daughters. But in both cases I warn them about male violence.

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 21:58

i think it is sad that it is assumed that young boys are neccessaily going to turn out to be chauvanists and rapists. some will, but not all. not even the majority will.

there was a thread on here recently about boys over 8 not being in girls' changing rooms. now i do support this- it is right that both girls and boys from 8 upward have their dignity and privacy and the right to not feel self conscious when they change. BUT some of the posts were implying that it was all one way traffic- as though it was always girls who needed privacy. but boys can be self conscious too! and there were a couple of posters who were comparing what seemed to me like "playing doctors and nurses- you show me yours and i wil show you mine" sort of games common in primary schools to real sexual assault. i have trouble believing boys of age 8 can commit sexual crimes. ridiculous.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 27/01/2018 22:01

i think it is sad that it is assumed that young boys are neccessaily going to turn out to be chauvanists and rapists

It would be very sad if that happened

I dont know anyone who assumes that though

mentalfluid · 27/01/2018 22:01

idontdowindows true- i do agree sexual violence definitely more likely to be instigated by males. i do not think saying that is demonising men and boys tbh. but i have seen some threads on MN that do seem to assume all boys have the potential to be sex offenders.

i do agree though that boys need to be taught to respect girl's sexual boundaries from the moment they hit their teens or maybe a couple years before. so they learn to not be sexual offenders etc when they are of an age to be capable of committing offences.

Pumperthepumper · 27/01/2018 22:02

forestDad from here:

www.womensaid.org.uk/what-we-do/campaigning-and-influencing/femicide-census/

The latest Femicide Census report, published in December 2017, reveals that 113 women were killed by men in England, Wales and Northern Ireland in 2016. Nine in ten women killed that year were killed by someone they knew, 78 women were killed by their current or former intimate partner and 65 of those were killed in their own home or the home they shared with the perpetrator.

Men are still the perpetrators of the vast majority of violent crime, whether the victim is male or female.