to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

[churchoflego]

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

Why has change been deleted

I don't remember what was said

Oh wow they've all gone

"That to me suggests they have had their eyes opened but won’t admit it"
I wish I thought that was true. But I think they just go off confirmed that we think all men especially their sonsare rapists.

Change said some vile things on the David Walliams thread. I imagine they’ve been banned.

"This thread is quite typical in the way that anyone not toeing the line is shouted into submission"

What do you mean-"shouted into submission"?

Typed into submission

I agree that the problem is when these attitudes to men pervade unjustifiably at the individual level. A recent thread about men paying for dates included one poster who broadly said men should because of the gender pay gap. No recognition of the financial circumstances of the individual man.

They called one of the more well-known posters a cunt and that's enough for a total deletion nowadays.

I honestly dont think thats the case

People call people cunts all over the place on here

I will report my post

No one was shouted down. Merely disagreed with.

got didnt last long at all

Im a bit scared now

Its like a horror movie where people get picked off one by one

@Pepperedbeef

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The problem is there tends to be an overlap with class analysis and discussion of the overall problem and the individual.
This is what gets people defensive and angry. On an individual level, most of us know lovely men and boys but it is a difficult thing to be able to call out the behaviour predominately carried out by a single demograph without causing offence.

Yeah! I am sick of male entitlement and violence. Just look at the news pretty much any day. Stuff that diminishes and degrades women, violence against women -- almost always by men. Let's not pretend this isn't the case.

Yes, it is depressing and scary. Clearly something is going very wrong with how we raise and socialise our boys as a society.

What do you mean-"shouted into submission"?

‘Presented with undeniable facts’

You could stop using ‘not all men’ as a way to stop discussion

The problem is blaming innocent men for guilty men's actions also stops discussion and discussions just go round in a circle and never get anywhere. Side A is left thinking the side B hates men and side B is left thinking side A doesn't care about women. Hopefully the reality is no one hates a gender of people and everyone thinks something should be done about violent crime.

It's such an emotive topic that it's very hard to stop discussions descending into arguments.

The problem is blaming innocent men for guilty men's actions also stops discussion and discussions just go round in a circle and never get anywhere. Side A is left thinking the side B hates men and side B is left thinking side A doesn't care about women. Hopefully the reality is no one hates a gender of people and everyone thinks something should be done about violent crime.

Who is blaming innocent men? Literally no-one. We’re saying that the perpetrators of violent crimes are overwhelmingly male, because they are. That’s a fact. So you can either a) accept that fact and look at the reasons why that exists or b) deny that fact and put your energies into telling everyone how nice the men in your life are.

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

If you chose to ignore the fact that 76% of violent crimes are committed by men, how do you try to combat it? How do you reduce violent crime stats, what other factors do you look at?

I am happily married to a man and have three sons as well as a daughter.

I can categorically tell you I have only ever witnessed sexual aggression and harassment coming from men. I understand that being a male in this world carries a privilege if all other things are equal.

I personally think saying that men are the problem is missing the point.

Violent men are the problem. They key word is VIOLENT, not MEN.

Saying men are the problem is like saying "Cancer patients are the problem." The problem is cancer, not the people who have it. Cancer patients (can) have a dramatic effect on those around them, they cost the NHS a fortune, but we seem able to focus on the actual problem, the disease, rather the people, many of whom may have done nothing wrong.

Many people would shirk away from saying that Muslims are dangerous and a problem, because they'd be called racist. The problem is terrorism, not Muslims.

I dislike the way some people seem to think it is fine to cast disparaging generalizations against large numbers of people who are completely innocent, just because they are labelled as being part of a group which contains unpleasant people. In the OP's specific case, I believe that turning on (innocent) men because we cannot distinguish them from the guilty ones, by lumping them into one homogeneous group, we make the problem for women worse rather than better. We would be better off working with men rather than always against them.

Men are much more likely to be subjected to violence than women!

Yes but by other men. And women are far more likely to be the victim of sexual violence by men.

See the common denominator?

Saying men are the problem is like saying "Cancer patients are the problem." The problem is cancer, not the people who have it. Cancer patients (can) have a dramatic effect on those around them, they cost the NHS a fortune, but we seem able to focus on the actual problem, the disease, rather the people, many of whom may have done nothing wrong.

That analogy doesn't work. If a certain segment of society has cancer at far higher rates than others, you would certainly investigate why that is and not just say "all people get cancer". African american women die in childbirth more than white american women. It would be pretty stupid to think that race mightn't have something to do with that and focus at least some resources on fixing it. Rather than saying "we should focus on reducing all maternal mortality, not just african-american women"

People don't ignore the fact that most prisoners in the US are black men. The black community certainly don't. People acknowledge the fact head on and look at why this might be - is there police and prosecutorial bias? Is poverty a factor? Is it linked to rates of high school graduation? If so why? No one pretends it isn't a fact.

So given it is a fact that most violent crime is committed by men, aren't you in the least interested in why that might be? Why women aren't as violent? What society could change so that the vast majority of people - men and women - who live peaceful lives aren't the subject of that violence?

Ive asked this a few times on this thread and don’t think I’ve had an answer yet. If we ignore that it’s men who commit 76% of violent crimes (I know that figure excludes sexual crimes) then how do you propose we reduce the rate of violent crimes?

I believe that turning on (innocent) men because we cannot distinguish them from the guilty ones, by lumping them into one homogeneous group, we make the problem for women worse rather than better. We would be better off working with men rather than always against them.

I don't even know what that means? Do you mean to imply that non-violent men might become violent if they hear women say factual things like "most violent crimes are committed by men". You don't think very much of men, do you.