to be sick of all the man/boy hate.

[churchoflego]

What the hell is going on? Men are not the devil. Boys are not the devil. I have sons and all I read is how as white males they are basically considered the spawn of satan. When did males become the enemy? Surely there are good and bad individuals who happen to be male or female?

I was horribly bullied at school by females and again at work by females, however, I don't consider all females to be evil. They were horrible individuals who happened to be female.

It's really depressing and scary.

So its fine to say men cause more violent crime = perfectly fine statement. But black people commit more crime as they make up more of the prison population so the statement black people commit more crime is fine right?

Nope one would cause me to be labeled a racist.

Leaving aside whether or not you want to be a bigot, there is also a question of truth. Something is not a property of a group unless it is a typical characteristic of a group. If fewer than half of men are rapists, you shouldn't use "men" as shorthand for rapists, for example.

Does anyone use ‘men’ as shorthand for rapists?

The trouble with NOT identifying the ‘class’ of person who commits a crime is it’s very difficult to tackle the statistics of that crime without it. So if, for example, 98% of fly tipping was done by people in range rovers, would it not make sense to look at why that was the case? Rather than thinking ‘the RR thing is just a coincidence, let’s ignore the overriding thing these people have in common’

So its fine to say men cause more violent crime = perfectly fine statement. But black people commit more crime as they make up more of the prison population so the statement black people commit more crime is fine right?

Also bullshit. If it was a FACT that 98% of X crime was committed by black women under the age of 25 then it’s absolutely fine to acknowledge that fact because then you can look at the reasons that fact exsists - then look at what can be done to change it.

What you can’t say is ‘all black women under the age of 25 are X’ because that’s nonsense.

Worridmum - there is a problem with only looking at prison population as this does not take into account lots of other factors - such as white collar crime (fraud and theft) and illegitimate force/war crimes (violent crime) and the likelihood of prosecution/incarceration.

So you are starting with biased statistics which are very likely to support the status quo.

The number of black people In prison is not an indicator of the %age of black people committing crimes. It is more complex and nuanced than that.

I don't think men will be sat worrying about hatred towards them TBH.
Only on places like mumsnet that it ever seems to be an issue.

"I don't think men will be sat worrying about hatred towards them TBH."

Really? Have you listened to the way many men have responded to the recent public sexual abuse allegations? Seen the responses to women posting on Twitter about practically anything? Ever looked at Reddit?

Ha even lovely DH takes it all personally if I moan about anything ‘men’ have done. I now refer to it as ‘generic man’ to tease him a little bit. But only good naturedly as he does try to understand

If you think the feminism boards are hilarious, you have a very dark sense of humour. Or you're a misogynist.

I find the boards very depressing because they deal with actual problems that women face, problems that are often getting worse and which people like you laugh at.

Points of information for the thread:

Men committ 63% of violent crime. Not 97% as claimed here. That's the figure for sexual assualts / rape - crimes which are written to protect women from men. It would be suprising if those crimes were not overwhelmingly committed by men.

Between 6-7 women are killed a month by partners / ex-partners. 2-3 Men are killed a month by their female partners. That makes the figures about 1.5 women killed per week and 1 man every two weeks. Another way to put that statistic is that the murder rate for women is 1 in 400,000. That's low, not terrifyingly high.

Honestly violence is more of a problem for men than women. My son is twice as likely to be murdered and about three times as likely to be a victim of violence as my daughter. We've been trying to deal with it for about, oh... 6 thousand years now? I don't think 'identifying' the problem as 'male' violence adds anything to the problem of crime or violent crime.

And I feel that a lot of the statistics picked here are cherry picked, deliberately disingenuous and I think 'false in one, false in all' when they are quoted.

For example........ The "All penetration is rape" thread.......... Mind blowingly nuts it was. So much so it was funny.

"For example........ The "All penetration is rape" thread.......... Mind blowingly nuts it was. So much so it was funny."
I must have missed that one. It is a very interesting point of view, if a little less simplistic than you present it. A couple of people have written "think pieces" about it. Always good to have your preconceptions challenged, don't you think?

Don't get me wrong maybebabybe........ I'm all for fighting misogyny, and feminism. I have fought them both out there in the real world. However, the feminist board has been hijacked by crazy man-haters. Crazy, but amusing........

"However, the feminist board has been hijacked by crazy man-haters. Crazy, but amusing........"

I would be interested to know what you find amusing.

What utter tripe @bridgetoc.

Lol ok bridgetoc. Run along now.

Oh, I don't know AssasinatedBeauty. There may have been all sorts of funny things we missed. I'm hoping to hear all about them any minute.

Thank you Reliefofchaos those stats seem much more realistic, and put things more into perspective. And I agree as a mother of 3 boys I worry much more about them being victims of violent crime than than my sister does about her girls.

Relief not quite, although I was wrong too. It’s three quarters of violent crime that’s committed by men, 76%. From ONS, but I think that only covers England and Wales.

Perpetrators were most likely to be male, being reported to be the perpetrator in three-quarters of violent incidents (76%). Perpetrators were also most likely to be aged between 25 and 39, with the perpetrator believed to belong to this age group in 42% of violent incidents.

From domesticviolencelondon.nhs.uk:

Home Office figures reveal that on average...around 30 men a year are killed within a domestic abuse context. Women are almost exclusively killed by men whereas in contrast approximately one third of the men are killed by other men and a little under a third are killed by women against whom they have a documented history of abuse.

So not quite right about that either. Still overwhelmingly men who are doing the killing.

You say men are more at risk of violence than women - who do you think is carrying out that violence? It is absolutely helpful to suggest that the ‘male’ part of ‘male violence’ is important - it means we can look at the reasons why that’s the case and put a stop to it.

missy

Well yes

If you say that being raped isnt a violent crime then its much easier to not worry about the girls

And I agree as a mother of 3 boys I worry much more about them being victims of violent crime than than my sister does about her girls.

Firstly, do you not consider rape a violent crime then?

Secondly, do you still not see the problem is male violence, whether it's directed at men or women?

I see it as a problem of violence in our society whether it’s rape or a stabbing or a shooting. None of those violent crimes are any better than the other. Calling it male violence (which of course it isn’t always), doesn’t make any difference or help resolve the issue at all does it?

Yes, because the vast majority of it is committed by men. So that's where you need to focus the attention, on how society develops men that do this. To spend an equal amount of time focusing on women as perpetrators would be the wrong thing to do.