To be furious teachers keep sitting 'naughty' kids next to my 'angelic' DC

[Flaky]

So he is then upset by them being mean to him and doesn't want to go to school?

This is at least the 3rd occasion a kid like this has been moved next to him.

Last year the teacher admitted that she had done it so DS's good influence rubs off but why should he suffer for it?

He's the youngest in the class as well (Yr2)and some of these DC are almost a whole year older.

Isn't this just very lazy teaching?

kailink it does sound like a total nightmare.

Teacher did not bother to contact me as I requested
When were you expecting the teacher to contact you, Flaky?

No teacher wants to see a child being bullied and if that is what is happening, speak to the teacher, because if they don't know they can't fix it. But I've read this whole thread and it has made me want to run away screaming from this increasingly impossible job. Don't parents realise we are doing our level best for your children? Do you realise that in the house your child might be angelic while watching tv or sitting on their ipad, but might be a real handful in the classroom? The number of times the word lazy has been used to describe teachers on here is sickening. What are those 'selfish needs' exactly??? To be able to teach a lesson without constant interruptions? To endeavour to minimise bad behaviour?? We aren't lazy, we aren't twats and very few of us are shit at our jobs...but we are utterly demoralised and many of us have had enough.

goodbyestranger I arrived here on page 9 and made a post very relevant to the thread. I only made further posts when you insinuated I'm a liar and had gone off-topic. Your idea of "hijacking" is very strange...

Although interesting that you're engaging here with people who have empathy and reading comprehension skills and it isn't bringing up your standards of behaviour. I guess the strategy doesn't work.

I had this in my science and English classes. I was very good at science and was put on a table with two disruptive students and one who needed a little encouragement.

My pens would be taken off me and "borrowed". One day, one of the disruptive students took a piece of metal, banged it on the table and rang it in my ear and caused me pain.

In my GCSE, I was one point away from a C. If I hadn't had to do the teacher's job for them then I would have scored higher. It destroyed what little self confidence I had.

In English, I had the highest grades but was partnered with someone who resented the fact I beat him in a spelling test and I was stopped by other students who wanted me to spell words constantly. Misogynist student wrecked my GCSE by deliberately looking across at my exam paper and copying.

Needless to say that when I retook my GCSEs several years later, I got higher grades. But my confidence didn't improve until I did CBT 2 years ago.

I'm rather more empathetic to the disruptive child with the shit home life than other posters though UpABitLate.

I didn't insinuate lying but I'm not going to get into an argument about that DMRAT. Your experience is extreme and not typical of the standard classroom strategy, which seems perfectly acceptable to me. Your situation seems wholly unacceptable.

I am under no illusions LJ. DS can be a bit obnoxious at home but at school he is a model pupil and has been described as such. He is also sensitive and thoughtful.

I deserve him after the hell that has been DS2! I have all too much experience of children with additional needs not getting support in school so their behaviour does not impact others. DS2 was just 'naughty' until he was diagnosed with severe learning difficulties at age 11.

Flyingelbows armchair experts?? Really?? I have observed many lessons, volunteered at all my DC's schools, I'm trained in SEN and have worked with plenty of them in a school setting. Do you know what it has taught me for my own kids? That if my child is unhappy regarding a serious matter - such as is being discussed in this thread - then I need to communicate clearly to the teacher that there is a problem. And that I expect them to explain their reasoning for their decisions.
I wrote in my first post here that I had this exact conversation with my DDs teacher on Monday. In my DDs case, the class naughty child also bullied her last term, the teacher and school is aware, hence it only took me a day to talk to the teacher. The teacher explained his reasoning for the change in seating arrangement and why my DD was sat next to said child.
He now knows I've highlighted the issue if there are any problems in the future and that he is accountable but equally I accepted and understood his reasons and won't bring up the subject again unless I feel I need to for my DD's sake.

I'm rather more empathetic to the disruptive child with the shit home life

Which child with the shit home life

The child ds1 was sat next to didnt have a shit home life

I dont think the 25 disruptive kids in his year 10 class all had shit home lives...i mean some of them might but i think the odds of all 25 are really low

I think most people have every sympathy for children with SEN or a shit home life

But I believe you can have a disruptive child with neither of those two things

So the idea that the teachers didn't care about the impact on the "quiet one" seems to have been upheld here by a distressingly large amount of teachers.

It's not about not caring. It is about knowing your class and the students and making the best call you can.

I'm slightly confused how I'm being accused by many posters of being patronising and uncaring about quiet students when across this thread I have said:

1. that I wouldn't put a highly disruptive child with a very quiet one because it tends not to work
2. nor would I put the most academic and the least academic next to each other again because it tends not to work (but outlined how different abilities could be paired more effectively)
3. that there should be a zero tolerance approach to bullying.
4. If there is bullying it should absolutely be reported to school

People are quick to say spreading out badly behaved children is lazy and poor teaching and shows you don't care. That is simply not the case. As part and parcel of a range of approaches it can be very beneficial.
E.g. option 1 - sit childwho displays disruptive behaviour on their own at the front 'just because it's that child'. That child who is acting out for whatever reason has zero incentive to make any changes because 'what's the point when people think i'm.naughty anyway. I mighy as well act up and disrupt the learning'.
Option 2 - take disruptive child and place them strategically in a seating plan on an aisle seat towards the front so you can see them, you can offer intervention and encouragement and sit them next to a well rounded, middle student who gets on with most people but equally doesn't put up with crap. The two students are similar in ability. The disruptive student has a peer to engage with and share ideas. When you then do feedback both students have gained something from the discussion and yoi can give positive attention to the disruptive student rather than negative. If they disupt the lesson or are unkind to others then the behaviour policy is applied and then they are sent to work elsewhere on their own.

I know which of the 2 I go for and it has meant students who were on track to fail actually got a GCSE and could get into college.

If the only thing you do is shove a disruptuve child or a bully next to a quiet child and then expect the quiet child to put up with it then that is a catastrophically bad teaching decision.

But that is a bigger problem than a seating plan.

LJ

Those quite head down children won’t always tell anybody untill they reach the point of not wanting to go to school anymore.

I don’t know how my child acts in school but in primary where you are that child’s teacher all day every day you should be able to see the difference in the way they behave, the way they carry themselves in school and a change in their work.

I can only gage my child’s out side of school behaviour and untill he stopped wanting to go we had no idea he was sat next to that child, at home he was still his normal self but suddenly at bed time he would feel sick, in the mornings he was too tired to go to school. Always excuses at school time but fine the rest of the time. He went from running though the gates to class to counting down the days till the weekend/half term.

The damage was done before he would tell anybody or his teacher noticed. His bottled up all this frustration and withdrawn from School life. As I said one day he will explode from it, in School I don’t doubt from being sat next to another one of those children and you know what I won’t tell him off for it. If the teachers actually paid as much attention to the quite behaving children as they did the naughty ones nobody would get to the exploding/self harm stage.

The bad kids always get the rewards the treats and the awards. To see announced the school bully getting the best award the School offer while overlooking all those that try their best everyday makes a joke of the whole award system and the kids know it. X behaved yesterday and got star of the week today but I behave every day.

Agree with other poster who pointed out that not all children with a shit home life act out.

Some react by being very quiet and trying not to be noticed.

I can't understand why a person would reserve empathy for the former and not the latter.

LJDorothy if a teacher expects other children to police and deal with bad behaviour rather than deal with it themselves, then yes they are a bad and lazy teacher. It’s what the teacher is paid for.

The bad kids always get the rewards the treats and the awards. To see announced the school bully getting the best award the School offer while overlooking all those that try their best everyday makes a joke of the whole award system and the kids know it. X behaved yesterday and got star of the week today but I behave every day
That was one of my rants this week... to the students actually. I think i was talking about directing my intervention support to people who actually work hard and make.the most of class/homework because offering additional GCSE support to lazy students who coast in class is as unfair as bending over backwards to reward Timmy for not being a PITA.
Students agreed.
I have quite a firm line on that. Mess on in class, be disruptive, be unkind to other students and you get the minimum from me. Work hard, be kind and I will bend over backwards to help those students in any way i can.

I’m a teacher . I put the annoying kids beside each other . No way I’m making the well behaved kids suffer. If they don’t complete their work they can do it in their own time .
I don’t pander to kids .

Maisy you sound like a good teacher. I don’t understand the pandering to those who clearly cnba to put in any effort. It’s not hard to just sit and at least pretend to listen even if you are really day dreaming, it’s just being selfish to disrupt and ruin it for everyone else.

agnes
I'll do that with lazier or coasting students. I don't with disruptive studnets because them being in a pocket irritaes me and the group. So they are seated for learning startegically within the main group. Any nonsense then it's warning - sent out to be spoken to - sent to work in another room and they get an after school detention. If they get asked to leave 3 times in a short space of time then I arrange for them to be out of my lessons for a week and they sit in the back of another class for a week and tough luck for them.

Same principle but different approaches. It's why i don't have a "naughty table" because then nobody can say 'but do you not think that maybe your seating strategy contributed'. Seat for learning and given a fair chance means if they mess on then they find themselves out.

I've honestly never met a teacher who'd expect other pupils in the class to police or deal with bad behaviour. Sitting arrangements aren't about that. We're trying to make the classroom work as a learning environment, because we're paid to educate. And if we were lazy, believe me, we'd choose an alternative career.

Just read the first few pages, but wanted to add that I too was seated with the ‘disruptive children’ in the hope that I would be a calming influence. All that happened was that I was bullied for being ‘square’ by wanting to learn. Distracted massively and missed key points in lessons. And I eventually adopted a ‘can’t beat them join them’ attitude and became one of the naughty ones. It was a coping strategy. A bad one, but the teachers couldn’t control the kids so why they thought I could. It makes me so cross (bitter). It’s not a child’s job to help control the disruptive children. I understand and empathise with the many reasons why some children have issues with behaviour in school and appreciate that everyone has a right to an education.
But what about the children who want to learn ? Don’t they have a right to an uninterrupted education? All this rubbish about teaching the more sensible and able children about working with others less able and not being distracted etc is silly.
Quite simply you don’t come across this behavior in the work place. Never once in 20 years of work have I been hit, had work destroyed, been spat at, shook, hit, had items snatched off me, had a colleague scream in my face. (I have been sexually harassed though, which was easier to deal with in school)

I know this is extreme but actually I was scared of some of the kids I had to sit next too. As an adult I understand their challenges and their home life a bit more. But being told to sit by the kid who threw a chair as his teacher in the previous class, or the one who beat someone up at lunch, or the girl who wants to beat you up becuse the boy she fancies, fancies you is bloody frightening when you are 11!

My DD is only in foundation and they don’t do this in her school in foundation. But it’s was my list of questions when I viewed potential schools and I will be asking whether they do it and voicing my concerns if they introduce it as she moves up the school.

Rufus I've already said the massively angry disruptive child DD spent two years next to had a shit home life which the whole school and village was aware of.

I'm referring to that child.

UpABitLate I have sympathy for both but the child in question happened to be angry and disruptive. Nowhere did I refer to kids with the same domestic issues who present differently at school. False logic on your part.

Aaah i see

i was confused by you bringing the empathy of other posters into question

I didnt realise that it was a child only you knew

As i, and other posters I believe, have said i have every sympathy for a child struggling with a dreadful homelife or SEN...perhaps undiagnosed in some cases which must be distressing for all concerned

Oh sorry

I should really say that I obviously missed the earlier post of yours so apologies for that

I'm sure this child is merely representative of lots of other disruptive kids. There's usually a reason for extreme disruptive behaviour as a previous poster has said. So perhaps other posters whose kids don't have these problems to face could use a bit more imagination and empathy and explain to their kids why maybe they could help a bit. It's perfectly possible to do that, even with really young kids.

Cross post. No problem. I've missed posts too which has skewed my own.