All Trump sees is green. All we see is a traitorous orange menace. Who is right? Place bets now!! (Trump continued)

[badbadhusky]

A nod to Banzai there for old timers like me.

Old thread here.

Question is, is it Mueller time yet? Anyone fancy placing a bet on when Trump will exit the POTUS role?

My bet: 20 March 2019.

Quais. I only wish I knew. Naomi Klein in 'no is not enough' observed that countries who had a strong campaigning past were best placed because they had developed their mental muscles and knew what to do.

The US is well placed so I'm still hopeful.

Convince the swing voters or those that don't normally vote. Much like Brexit, the die-hards won't abandon their position because it's integral to their identity and their perception of the world. Seeking to engage those who don't normally engage and motivate them to take political action is probably the best course of action we have.

Yes, the no-shows and those who voted in the belief that there was no difference beween and D and R.

shareblue.com/chaotic-white-house-poised-to-dump-even-more-of-trumps-best-people/#.WmZswmE8Gwo.twitter

“Language is power, life and the instrument of culture, the instrument of domination and liberation,” Angela Carter.

(The last part is where the hope lies).

This is what it's come to...

Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine corralled her colleagues into a polite discussion to fund the US government Monday by forcing them to use a "talking stick." Yes, like the one kindergarten teachers use to prevent children from talking over one another. Or the conch from Lord of the Flies.

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/blakemontgomery/senators-needed-a-talking-stick-to-negotiate-shutdown-end?bftwnews=&utm_term=4ldqpgc&__twitter_impression=true

I'm feeling helpless here, by dint of not having a vote in the USA. I just don't know what I, a foreigner who doesn't even live in the States, can usefully do to persuade the relevant voters and Representatives in Trump's America to comprehend what is happening to their country and act to stop it getting worse? I doubt my interference would be welcome - does anyone else remember the Grauniad's somewhat controversial letter-writing campaign to try to persuade voters in a swing-county in Ohio to vote against Bush in 2004?

Bigly. I thought using 'talking sticks' was inspired. It stops people interrupting, and it also enables them to listen better. In a partisan, highly charged environment it does slow things down and helps build trust, which is what we're hearing in this instance.

Disclosure: I've used it on several occasions in meetings/workshops where I had strong minded individuals who 'just knew' the answer. The reaction is invariably at the beginning and at the end.

These are grown men and women! They are meant to be experienced politicians capable of running a country! Inspired maybe, but the fact that it was needed is just astounding to me.

I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but I do worry how far the GOP will go to suppress voting by the mid terms.

We need a big, encouraging sign from Mueller. I thought the SNL sketch was interesting - why now? goes away clutching at staws

It did not end well for Golding's boys.

I don't know for sure Ouais. But I think the thing is to pay attention and become informed, to speak out when it is necessary, to talk to others and to show solidarity whenever and wherever you can.

The world is smaller than we think.

liberal and sometimes optimist

These are grown men and women! They are meant to be experienced politicians capable of running a country! Inspired maybe, but the fact that it was needed is just astounding to me.

I agree but they are not atm (on either side of the Atlantic) so you do what you can.

Incidentally, I've used it with very senior civil servants

There’s lots to be doing to fix here gum (if here means the uk for you too!). Opposing Brexit so we don’t end up enabling trump, polish government etc can only be helpful

Sometimes less optimistic. Perhaps I should just stop paying attention to polls and surveys and stick to statistics that are attached to facts.

Jake Tapper
‏
Verified account

@jaketapper
2m2 minutes ago

WaPo: “Overall, 38 percent of Americans trust Trump to handle the authority to order nuclear attacks on other countries, while 60 percent do not.”

Honestly.

www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/devin-nunes-wont-even-show-his-infamous-memo-to-the-justice-department/

A fiver says the memo's just Nunes' shopping list.
#memowhatmemo

lion don't despair - there is the core third of Americans that have always held on to non-reality based worlds (flat earth etc). This just means they're carrying on with that!

The Earth isn't flat?

You taught me that cozie! It's taken awhile for it to sink in because it was hard to get my head around such a large proportion of the population processing information so differently but every time I've despaired about polls, you've reminded me that it's always been this way, which helps, so thank you

(not about the earth being flat but that there have always been people who believe in "alternative facts")

I agree but they are not atm (on either side of the Atlantic) so you do what you can.
Incidentally, I've used it with very senior civil servants

I'm not sure if this is supposed to make me feel better about the fact that apparently we have people in positions where their entire job is negotiation who need a bloody stick to know how to have a reasonable discussion. The fact that it is common practice just makes me feel even more concerned for us all.

I also learnt from following these threads that some people will always see the world in a "different" way

12 Million Americans Believe Lizard People Run Our Country
About 90 million Americans believe aliens exist. Some 66 million of us think aliens landed at Roswell in 1948. These are the things you learn when there's a lull in political news and pollsters get to ask whatever questions they want.
www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/12-million-americans-believe-lizard-people-run-our-country/316706/

Conspiracy craze: why 12 million Americans believe alien lizards rule us
amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/07/conspiracy-theory-paranoia-aliens-illuminati-beyonce-vaccines-cliven-bundy-jfk

HA. . Sessions V. Mueller.

<a class="break-all" href="https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/us/politics/jeff-sessions-special-counsel-russia.html?smid=tw-share&referer=t.co/eEG8xnjVax" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/us/politics/jeff-sessions-special-counsel-russia.html?smid=tw-share&referer=t.co/eEG8xnjVax

Can you imagine?