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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

All Trump sees is green. All we see is a traitorous orange menace. Who is right? Place bets now!! (Trump continued)

968 replies

badbadhusky · 17/01/2018 22:57

A nod to Banzai there for old timers like me.

Old thread here.

Question is, is it Mueller time yet? Anyone fancy placing a bet on when Trump will exit the POTUS role?

My bet: 20 March 2019.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
44
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/01/2018 23:55

Leah McElrath
@leahmcelrath

If you want @TheDemocrats to have power, then VOTE THEM INTO POWER.

EVERYTHING that's playing out was predictable (and was predicted by me and others) when Trump was put in office and the GOP gained the majority in BOTH houses of Congress on 11/9/2016.

The ONLY reasons that far WORSE has not happened and that what has happened has taken this long?

YOUR resistance, the Democratic lawmakers ceaseless efforts to minimize and contain loss, and the choices by many in the judicial branch to uphold the rule of law. 2/x

The Trump administration WANTS MASS DEPORTATIONS.

They are white supremacist authoritarian nativist fascists - call them whatever combo of terms you choose.

The Republican Party and its leadership REPEATEDLY CHOOSE NOT TO HOLD THEM ACOUNTABLE to existing norms and laws 3/x

The Trump administration WANTS TO DISMANTLE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

They are nihilists whose only power lies in the ability to destroy.

The Republican Party and its leadership REPEATEDLY CHOOSE TO ENABLE THEIR DESTRUCTION – in order to pass tax cuts for wealthy donors. 4/x

And @TheDemocrats?

Elected Democratic lawmakers DO NOT HAVE THE POWER to stop Trump and the GOP because they DO NOT HOLD THE MAJORITY in the House or Senate.

Period.

ALL they can do is loss containment (via painful compromises and/or obstruction – and they've done both). 5/x

We are going to lose things we took for granted and hold dear.

Not because of the Democrats – but because of Trump and the GOP's amoral priorities.

Families are already being broken apart.

And people are going to die. That is going to happen. 6/x

On 11/10/2016, @SenWarren appeared on @maddow, and she and Maddow talked about just a FEW of the things at risk:

twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/955554733963534336

People don't want to hear it, but – when it comes to the lives of undocumented immigrants – a win right now will be preventing MASS deportations.

Even IF the GOP and Dems come to agreement in BOTH the House and Senate and pass a bill, there is NO guarantee Trump will sign 8/x

I'm sorry, but that's the truth.

In fact, it would be to Trump's political DISADVANTAGE to sign such a bill.

Which means Congress would need to pass such legislation with a veto-proof majority IF they can come to agreement. 9/x

And I really am sorry.

People I love are at risk for deportation and the break-up of their families.

My daughter and I are at risk for losing health coverage and I have multiple pre-existing conditions. My father with dementia is at risk for losing nursing home care. 10/x

Yet here we are.

Doing what the Left does best: infighting and self-cannibalization. 11/x

www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/liberal-activists-are-furious-that-democrats-caved-on-the-shutdown/

While we misuse our energy by infighting, the right-wing is busy taking more steps forward into trying to solidify white supremacist entho-nationalism here in the United States:

"The Securing America's Future Act" 12/x

"House GOP Proposes Largest Restriction on Legal Immigrants Since the 1920s
www.cato.org/blog/house-gop-proposes-largest-restriction-legal-immigrants-1920s

We WILL end up here again over Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security.

That is precisely the GOP plan.

And they have the power to carry it out UNLESS AND UNTIL the Democrats are elected into the majority of at least one house of Congress. 13/x

LISTEN:

Those "tax cuts" the GOP passed into law for corporations and the wealthiest 400 households in the United States?

THOSE CANNOT BE FUNDED WITHOUT GUTTING MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

Period.

The "growth" projections in the bill were smoke and mirrors. The GOP knows it. 14/x

This is exactly why I keep saying:

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE.

If you are someone who thinks right NOW is the time to do a major structural internal critique, exacerbate division within the Left, and likely depress voter turnout as a result, I don't know what to tell you 15/x

And I haven't even TOUCHED on the fact that, simultaneously, we are having to fight to SAVE our democratic republic from destabilization by foreign powers and their agents. 16/x

There is a GLOBAL effort by Putin and certain billionaires to use active measures to destabilize ALL liberal (small "l") democracies and to foster the expansion of white supremacist authoritarianism and economic "austerity" practices.

The stakes could not be higher. 17/x

On DACA and Dreamers specifically, perhaps, if this is not already happening (and I hope it is), we need to start thinking outside the legislative box.

Is there a way to effect MASS SANCTUARY via religious institutions if mass deportations become a reality, for instance? 18/x

More on DACA and Dreamers specifically:

Some families are needing to consult immigration and/or family attorneys to create legal contingencies for their children if they themselves are deported. Can we do crowdfunding to help them or donate to already existing orgs? 19/x

More on DACA and Dreamers specifically:

Our nation made a PROMISE to Dreamers in return for their giving the govt all of their personal info, and the govt is breaking its promise.

Take action now locally and via $$$ to help protect them.

WE are ALL our greatest strength. 20/x

In terms of the larger picture, ask yourself NOW:

  1. What privilege and resources do you have that you are willing to spend?
  2. For whom are you willing to spend them?

No one is going to swoop in and save us. We save ourselves and each other – or we don't. 21/x

WE ARE AT A MORAL AND HISTORY-DEFINING CROSSROADS.

Future generations will hold us responsible for both our actions and our inactions.

And, yes, it is scary and exhausting. But none of us is alone.

We are our greatest strength.

lionheart · 23/01/2018 00:18

There must be a new thread title in here somewhere.

elephant that was once in the room perhaps

FizzyCherry · 23/01/2018 04:26

I gamble, a bit. Mostly matched betting (and bingo). Occasionally you have to place a non-matched bet to keep accounts open, so I study various odds and make long term predictions.
Last I checked, the odds on him going this year or lasting the full term were roughly equal.
The odds on him going in 2019/20 were considerably longer. So much less chance.

So, essentially, from that I read that the consensus is that either he’s going to get away with it or the net is closing in.

Interestingly, there were quite short odds on him getting a second term, presumably based on the theory that if he gets as far as being re-elected he’s home and dry.

Obviously, if he gets assassinated, all bets are off (but I have a separate bet purely with myself that that could happen, or at least an attempt and I think it might be an inside job a la JFK).
Interesting, and crinkly worrying, times....

FizzyCherry · 23/01/2018 04:28

frankly worrying but also, crinkly works...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 06:07

Interesting fizzy.

Scoop: FBI director threatened to resign amid Trump, Sessions pressure

www.axios.com/scoop-1516661397-877adb3e-5f8d-44a1-8a2f-d4f0894ca6a7.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 06:10

James Comey
@Comey
Good to read reports of people standing up for what they believe in. “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy” — MLK

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 06:12

Manu Raju
@mkraju
GOP in House pushing to release Nunes memo soon, with little interest in giving FBI a chance to review it first. Meadows tonight: "I'm not in favor of looking at DOJ or FBI weighing in -- they've been less than cooperative on a number of fronts." snpy.tv/2n14gRm

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 07:17

Authoritarian checklist this morning:

Inciting violence on press (and this being bought by the public)

Michigan man allegedly told CNN 'I'm coming to gun you all down'

amp.wcpo.com/2476669911/michigan-man-allegedly-told-cnn-im-coming-to-gun-you-all-down.html?__twitter_impression=true

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 07:19

Calls for purges

Media Matters
@mmfa
Lou Dobbs calls for U.S. Marshals to take "top people" in the Justice Department and FBI into custody mm4a.org/ZPb

Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
In America, we don’t arrest people unless they’re charged with committing a crime. Only totalitarian regimes arrest independent investigators without any due process.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 07:20

Ministry of truth

CNN
@CNN
Sen. Ted Cruz told reporters he has "consistently opposed shutdowns," leading to this response from Sen. Susan Collins: "I am rendered speechless": cnn.it/2F6yJoK

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 07:22

Erosion of separation of power and judicial impartiality

Sen. Lamar Alexander
@SenAlexander
I enjoyed having dinner tonight at the home of Senator John Cornyn and his wife Sandy with our newest Supreme Court Justice, Neil Gorsuch, Transportation Secretary Chao and a few of my other Senate colleagues to talk about important issues facing our country.

Nancy Leong
@nancyleong
I am sure GOP twitter would be very chill if Justice Sonia Sotomayor was having dinner at the home of Senator Kamala Harris to “talk about important issues facing the country”

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 07:29

(Secret pol)ICE

Dana Houle
@DanaHoule
Most deprived, sadistic official in the entire Federal Government? Consider the following:

Strip searched mother in front of her Dreamer son: americasvoice.org/blog/community_members_stand_up_against_abusive_ice_practices_in_michigan

Targeted parents dropping off kids at their school: detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/10/17/advocates-cry-foul-over-immigrant-arrests-near-detroit-schools/amp/

1/

Deported mother of teen w Down’s Syndrome: www.whio.com/news/national-govt) whio.com/news/national-…—politics/mother-wearing-ankle-device-ice-can-monitor-her-awaits-certain-deportation/T09lwtHmcL1ruGlU0BDOnN/

Agents ate b’fast, complemented chef, detained staff (incl a US citizen): www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/midwest/ct-michigan-restaurant-immigration-arrests-20170525-story.html

/2

Detained over 100 Christian immigrants to be deported to Iraq www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/09/michigan_s_iraqi_chaldean_community_is_fighting_to_protect_dozens_of_people.html

Deported caregiver of disabled stepson www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/09/ice_denies_deportation_stay_fo.html

Deported Dreamers in US for decades, tearing them from their families: americasvoice.org/press_releases/adducci-separating-families/

Caregiver of paraplegic stepson, arrested for traffic violation, ordered deported: www.newsweek.com/ice-deports-paraplegic-boy-caregiver-driving-without-license-773393

Canceled voluntary deportation by man, later demanded he attend mtg, he arrives w Congressman, they arrest him: americasvoice.org/press_releases/amer-adi-detained/

Then, this weekend… 4/

Dr in US since brought here undocumented 40 yrs ago detained to possibly be sent to Poland (link: woodtv.com/2018/01/20/kzoo-doctor-detained-by-ice-after-40-years-in-us/

Would be hard to find a federal gov’t official who’s personally signed off on more acts of deranged cruelty than Detroit ICE Director Rebecca Adducci /5

Detroit ICE Director Rebecca Adducci was horrible before Trump took office. But she was partially contained by Obama appointees. But Trump has unleashed her & her agents from any constraints: articles.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/06/ice_arrests.amp 6/

Under Trump, pols & gov’t officials w authoritarian tendencies have been unleashed to be depraved sadists, and they perform their cruelty in the name of the American people. This list of atrocities against decency & justice isn’t only any indictment of Adducci, but ICE as well 7/

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 07:32

Joseph Fasano
@JosephFasano
"One of my teachers at Columbia was Joseph Brodsky...and he said 'look,' he said, 'you Americans, you are so naïve. You think evil is going to come into your houses wearing big black boots. It doesn’t come like that. Look at the language. It begins in the language.'" - Marie Howe

Lweji · 23/01/2018 09:05

First they came for the...

Anyway...

Trump's Law:

For everything he says or does, he's said the exact opposite.

In this case, blame the President for the shutdown.

Gumpendorf · 23/01/2018 09:58

Oh Pain they are the most distressing links. It may just be because the spotlight is currently illuminating immigration, but it seems like ICE are getting worse and the supporting rhetoric is hitting up. It's hard to believe it's just one week since POTUS was under pressure for racist remarks. We've moved on - accepted he's a racist and now the narrative is grounded in open racism.

However much we try to avoid being normalised against this stuff, I know my shock levels are lower than a year ago. The lying and the misrepresentation from the WH and GOP are sociopathic.

It's a still a long way to the Midterms.

Gumpendorf · 23/01/2018 09:59

Hotting up ...

OuaisMaisBon · 23/01/2018 10:20

but it seems like ICE are getting worse and the supporting rhetoric is hitting up. It's hard to believe it's just one week since POTUS was under pressure for racist remarks. We've moved on - accepted he's a racist and now the narrative is grounded in open racism.
I will NOT accept this, Gumpendorf - we need to fight the normalisation of Trump and his followers' racism. But how? Do we "troll" him and his supporters on Twitter, constantly? How do we make him and the GOP understand such he is bringing not only the Presidency, but the country, into disrepute, and are bringing about its downfall, not making America great again. (That God-awful baseball cap he actually wears in the Oval Office. Seriously?)

OuaisMaisBon · 23/01/2018 10:21

*that they, not such he, sorry!

lionheart · 23/01/2018 10:23

There are so many reports about ICE activities. It is alarming.

Brodsky was right. The language that says a group is less than or other than human is always in place before the destruction begins.

Elsewhere:

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/23/somali-citizens-count-cost-of-surge-in-us-airstrikes-under-trump

lionheart · 23/01/2018 10:24

A more general overview.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/23/us-air-wars-trump

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/01/2018 10:27

On language, see: The Daily Mail and The Sun. It's pervasive.