To ask how you would feel if your adult child decided to emigrate to Oz or NZ

[CaraBosse1]

Be honest and don't say you'd be "cool" about it if you wouldn't really

petbear You seem to be missing a fundamental point here. Most people do not just "piss" or "bugger" off to the other side of the world for the sheer fun of it. Most people are doing it because there are opportunities available there that aren't available in their home country, or because the quality of life on offer is better.

Believe it or not, the UK is not superior in every way. Some countries offer some people opportunities that the UK cannot. Some countries offer some people a more desirable quality of life than the UK.

That is why most people move across the world. They're seeking something better than what they can get at home.

Have you even read some of the more recent posts, petbear?

And to be frank, most people who DO leave their own country, are often from less than desirable countries, or they don't get on with their family/have fallen out. Coz let's face it, why move to another country - permanently - if life is all rosy and wonderful where you are? Doesn't make any sense. At all.

Wellington, Auckland, Sydney, Melbourne - all littered with Brits. What does that say about the UK?

Petbear your are talking claptrap.
Why should people not move village, town , region, or , yes country. Travelling and holiday is NOT the same as living somewhere else and being immersed in that culture. Living in another country gives you the opportunity to grow individually as you need to be so resourceful. It also provides an opportunity for relatives and friends to visit and stay, which they do. It adds to the colour of your life. It does not “destroy families and relationships”. Or some kind of bizarre “betrayal” of country. I love both Aus and UK and am citizens of both countries, feel love for both and actually could probably live happy in either. I choose to be in Aus at the moment. People here live and move within the country sometimss thousands of miles from their relatives but are still within their own country! You could wail and weep about that as an Aussie parent too I suspect most Aussies just jump on a flight no dramas and visit the relatives. Seems in the UK some have a bizarre view of how far is too far. It’s a state of mind.

What's more, as has been said, many people regret emigrating to New Zealand and Australia, around two thirds actually.

Interesting figure, would love to see this article. In the meantime, I will survey my literally dozens of British friends and coworkers to see if it correlates.

This is hard reading, I am the daughter sitting here in Sydney reading this, 3 Grandchildren and we haven't seen my parents in over 3 years now. My mum currently isn't very well and we just don't have the money to get home. My own children have a wonderful lifestyle but I am homesick all the time. My husband loves it and never feels homesick. We have been here 5 years now.

Also some stats. I think about just under a third of migrants from uk to Oz return to the uk having failed to settle or for whatever reason. Most do actually stay. As do migrants from 100 other countries who call Oz home - it’s very multicultural these days with many Chinese, other SE Asian people , Indians, as well as many Europeans and South Americans. “What are people running away from”. For me, I fancied a change. I’d lived in London in my 20s and 30s and loved it. But time came when I sought a big change of scene. Other relatives had also moved here and we’d visited and they’d managed to improve their way of life from what it was in the UK. What attracted? Space. Job opportunities. Can-do attitudes. The general institutional optimism of the state, the press, the civic institutions, the education and health system and many people’s mindsets - about a place being the future and of building a nation with a common sense of purpose as Asia/Pacific grows. These are some pull factors. I wasn’t running away from anything, i enjoyed my life in London and have many friends there . and have been back to the uk 4 times since I left to visit relatives friends and key family members have been here twice and we all keep in regular touch. Not everyone by any means is running from anything.

We emigrated for 'pull' rather than 'push' factors. I think that this is actually really important in order to make a successful transition (so long as the information you make your decision on is correct - ie people who move because they think that their money will go further without taking into account changes in exchange rates will likely be disappointed). We also recognise now that we could almost certainly have moved within the UK for similar gains. What we didn't and would never do is to dress up our reasons for moving as benefiting anyone other than us and our children. Any 'opportunity for relatives and friends to visit and stay' has been a trivial benefit to them. Sure it was nice for my eldest sister that her son stayed with us when he was traveling the world, but given that part of the cost of us moving is that she really doesn't know my children at all (and sure they may stay with her for a week or two during their university years) I think it's a pretty poor trade off.

@petbear that's utterly ridiculous. You can have a lovely life and close family and friends in your own country and still yearn for something new/different/exciting and to experience a whole new lifestyle which you don't get from a holiday. Emigrating isn't a reflection on your family and social relationships, and I find the idea that it is completely bizarre. People are allowed to have dreams and ambitions that don't all centre around the other people in their life.

petbear

I also would never ever do it to my own family. Then again, I have never harboured the desire to go to Australia or New Zealand to live. I also have no idea why anyone would want to emigrate there to be honest.

Space.

Space.

Space.

I left the UK two decades ago for NZ. I live in a house I bought for a moderate price that comes with a garden that would fit another 3 or 4 houses in the UK. It contains some nice fruit trees. It's 10 minutes from the city centre. 10 minutes in the other direction and I'm in fields. There are tonnes of outdoor activities.

There is space in other senses too: less rules, and less prescription about how things generally should be done.

There is, in my experience, a more positive approach to life, and less concern about what other people will think.

Yes I love my family but I also love my DP who is from NZ and who probably couldn't stick living in the UK.

I love returning to the UK to visit my family, but I can't express just how closed in I feel there, and I reckon lots of Antipodeans feel the same.

We emigrated for 'pull' rather than 'push' factors. I think that this is actually really important in order to make a successful transition

This. The British families that struggle are, in my experience, ones that got out because life in the UK wasn't working for them.

The "whinging Pom" stereotype definitely exists in reality, although they're less commonly found now than in the past.

Petbear you're totally missing the nuances and the patient explanations from people who detail why they moved!

As for the "dozens" who move to be with another partner. In NZ one in four people was born abroad. About a third of my Kiwi friends are married to Brits!

I would love to see stats bearing out thr "two thirds regret it..." statement too.

And I don't live in a bubble; I just live in a place where family and friends love and care about each other, and don't piss off 12,000 miles away, without so much as a backwards glance, and leave their family behind, destroying the relationship they have with them. How sad that some people find this so easy to do.

I'm even more convinced that you live in a bubble, from this para ^^

Why are you describing it as 'without so much as a backward glance'?!

What's with the 'destroying relationships'?!

How do you know how easy people find it to do?

You really have no idea. I mean, you actually don't, do you?

Those of us who've done it, have lived both experiences - people like you can only come at this from one (sheltered) perspective, so forgive us if we just don't take your histrionics and bizarre anger seriously.

My mum currently isn't very well and we just don't have the money to get home.

Forrie, is there anyway you could go to see your mum alone if your husband and children are happy where they are?

For you

In Melbourne 60% of people have at least one parent who was born abroad and in Australia 30% of the population was born abroad themselves. Melbourne has a population growth rate twice as fast as London, and 3 times as fast as the UK as a whole. most of this from overseas immigration.
there’s a hell of a lot of the population of Aus hell selfishly hell bent on “destroying their families”. 😊 I’m surprised we don’t die as a nation from collective shame. Actually it does go to explain the international outlook of the country and the fact that most people don’t think it’s the end of the world to have part of their family living in another country. So many people have relatives abroad and maintain family relationships across continents.

We begged and borrowed to get here. Paid back within 6 months.
I'm the first person in my family for at least 4 generations to actually leave the country (even for a holiday) my family roots are engrained in the welsh mining industry. So I'm not from a particularly rich family I'm sure you can realize!
So packing up my flat and coming to Australia with my Dh (an Aussie resident - but had never been for more than 3 weeks and had to get a Residents return visa) was one of the hardest things I ever did.
I stayed with my mum for 2 weeks in the lead up, then in the last few days came back again and stayed until the day I had to go. I spent quite a bit of time crying in the bathroom at her house. Every time one of us would cry we'd set the other off and it'd be a big mess. So I tried to avoid that. But when my taxi came to get me to the coach station (then onto London, a night in Heathrow lodge and a really early flight) we both cried really hard. And I spent the entire journey blubbing to the taxi driver.
I then got to the coach stop and met with DH (he'd spent his last night triple checking everything was done at the flat so I could spend more time with my mum). I cried some more.
I was using google maps to track where we were going. At one point we got onto a main road next to my mums house, I could see her road on the map. I really wanted to scream at the coach driver to just fucking stop. I burst into tears again.
Finally got to London and it was a bit manic. £110 () cab fare later we were at the hotel. Where I spent the night crying. I went outside and called my mum while I had a smoke. I fought back the tears and tried to keep the conversation light and cheerful but she broke before I did.
I didn't get any sleep at the hotel that night.
Got up, feeling like shit. Had my last smoke and got to the airport. Cried more on the plane. I was terrified; I'd never been on a plane before. Despite being in my late 20's I just wanted my mum. I didn't want to have to be leaving.
As soon as I felt the plane take off I burst into tears again. Dh tried to console me but the flight attendants noticed (thought I was scared, I was, but I wasn't about to start blubbing about my mum haha!) as we landed at our stopover, Abu Dhabi, I was even looking for flights

petbear: you wrote Some of the people I know who moved to the UK (from Aus and NZ,) are in their 20's and 30's. Their parents moved there from the UK when the kids were young, (7 to 12 y.o,) and the first chance the kids got, they moved back to the UK. (I presume you are implying that they moved back to the UK permanently, rather than temporarily for the almost obligatory working holiday)
which is rather contradictory to your later statement in response to Spams' "Regarding the young people heading on their travels to the UK...they almost ALL come back to Oz."

Yeah but Oz is where they were originally from

So which is it: are they Britains returning like spawning salmon to their natural breeding grounds or Australians flocking like migratory and transient birds?

Just curious. If they are two discrete subsets of people, you haven't clarified this.

When did it start to get better, Beko?

BekoLeGecko do you live in Aus now or the Uk? That sounds like a traumatic leaving. First time on a plane and you were emigrating. Quite an experience.

Shipshong
but I do wish they hadn't made that decision privately

So a round table discussion about whether they could or should go? Don't you see it isn't your place or business to get involved in their private decisions?

Re your response to my post above....Where did I say in my post we should have had a round table discussion of whether they could go or not? Please don't put words in my mouth!! We didn't and nor should we have. And yes I do know it isn't my place to get involved in their private decisions and I don't voice how I feel in real life. I can appreciate you have a bit of experience of similar but your WHOLE family, DPs and DBs did not emigrate 12,000 miles overseas did they? There is a difference. I wanted to give my perspective to the OP and I have. I won't like it if one of my DCs does the same but given we have a huge extended family there, I'm not naïve enough to think it won't happen :-).

Sorry, pressed post way to soon!
At Abu Dhabi I was even looking for flights home. It was a fucking terrible journey, but to me a necessity.

No, we didn't come to buy a mansion with the money from our 2 up 2 down in Wales or something ridiculous.
We came because some weeks; despite working full time (me for 13k a year him for 17k per year) we couldn't make all the bills, or we couldn't have the heating on. Everything was a struggle. Dh is a chef by trade, the chemicals they used to clean the floors at his workplace would wear his shoes very quickly. A pair of steel toe caps was £35+ a time even on eBay. £60+ if in shoezone (if his broke unexpectedly it would be shoezone because he'd need them asap). Whenever this would happen we'd both be a bit devastated because that was the food budget gone!
We weren't in debt and had no spending issues - a treat to us was £3 on value pizzas, a garlic bread and maybe a small value cheesecake or tub of Icecream.

So when his manager moved overseas and offered him a job with him (in Brisbane) we took a lot of time researching it.
We stuffed up the figures a bit, by accounting for things we didn't have to pay (like council rates, you don't pay that as a renter, most landlords don't charge water either as it's hard for them to they need to make the house v water efficient). But even then the figures looked pretty good, the amount of money left was unbelievable to me! I was actually in a bit of a state of anxiety thinking I'd forgotten to account for something and we were going to be truly fucked financially when we got here.
Luckily, I worked myself into a tizzy over nothing because as stated I even accounted for things that didn't happen.
Dh left his first job and got a new one (didn't gel with the owner and wanted a change) we also moved out of Brisbane. (We're in Central Queensland now)

Now we're by no means rich. I make $780 a week after taxes, which is a bit over minimum wage. Dh makes $1300 a week after taxes which is pretty good but we're pretty average here.
Our expenses are
$280 rent
Electricity $60 a week (it's not charged weekly but we pay it anyway as when billing time comes we're in credit)
Phones are $20 a week.
Foxtel is $75 a month ($18 ish per week) this is our internet and a basic tv package.
$100 a week on travel.
$100 a week on food, $50 on a weekly takeaway that we should probably cut out.
Everything else (clothes etc) is as and when but we have no difficulty paying it.
We're looking at houses in the 70-100k range (won't buy a mansion but will buy a nice little one or two bed) and have been saving $250-$450 a week toward this.
So max expenditure is about $1100 a week, even with saving a nice lump sum towards a house. Obviously it varies if we need stuff but that still leaves almost $1000 to do whatever we want with!
This either goes towards helping my family out if they need it; treats for us, any clothes or shoes or furniture needed, overspending on takeaways (which happens sometimes) or into my savings account which is for visits home. We're also looking at getting a car; something we couldn't afford back home (the £300 a month public transport bill didn't help with that but we couldn't afford to be closer to work; thankfully only one of us needs it now!)

Am I selfish?
I don't know. All I know is I wanted to stop being so anxious, stop having to count every pound, stop being miserly with money (had no choice then) I wanted to have better than mismatched second hand furniture, no food in the cupboards, bundling my Dh up in all of the blankets so one of us would be warm. We fought to get here and left debt behind to do it (fully paid off quickly).

My mother has told me In no uncertain terms that if I return I better do it with enough money to get me on the housing ladder and get us set up a bit. If not I'll be getting slapped with a wet fish
We talk a lot and I go back as much as I can (every 8-12 months ish) she's also applied for a passport so she can come and have a long holiday here.

I appreciate it anyone read the whole thing, but if you didn't, here's a condensed version.
Coming here was one of the hardest things I've ever done. But what was harder was working and working and working and never getting anywhere with it.

My mother and I have talked about this as great lengths. She was heartbroken to see me go, but she could very clearly see that our situation just wasn't sustainable as it was and one of us would've dropped under a train at some point, we kept playing catch up on everything. We still work hard here we're by no means rich least of all by local standards but we're in a position where we can have a life!
Leaving my home has taken a part of me I'll never get back. But I think it's worth it.

Sorry I was finishing off my very long post.
I'm still in Australia, Queensland to be more precise. Though a return may happen one day we'll be here for a long time.

It was absolutely traumatic and it broke my heart, it broke my mothers heart too. My sister was upset as was I but honestly we aren't that close (large age gap, never gelled, didn't see her much anyway) so it was mostly leaving my mum that hurt.
As soon as I got off the plane in Brisbane I was really numb (and tired and I stank. No one tells you that you stink like a dead body when you get off a plane after 20 odd hours in the sky!) I just sort of got on with it.
I slept for a few days and threw myself into finding work and accomodation, then building everything back up (furniture, etc) then we just started to live I guess. It was hard at first and I'm still not sure I feel completely settled. But I'm happy.

Having lived abroad - for a time, and worked I realised that family were one of the most important things in my life and proximity to them meant far more than money, or any other aspect of life. (I enjoy and share hobbies with my family).

My DH was also keen not to emigrate - he'd lived abroad as a child and felt he'd missed out being with his grandparents.

As for being glad you have different values jassy , i find that rather strange. And rather insulting. I looked for a partner who wished to share a similar life to me, sensible I think I'd call it. I was rather spoilt for choice so I didn't need to look elsewhere!

And I don't live in a bubble; I just live in a place where family and friends love and care about each other, and don't piss off 12,000 miles away, without so much as a backwards glance, and leave their family behind, destroying the relationship they have with them. How sad that some people find this so easy to do.

You seem very worked up, dear. Do you need a cup of tea? There you go... now, just take a deep breath and let's try to talk about this like reasonable people and not melodramatic Chicken Littles.

You said in an earlier post that the only thing going for the Antipodes was "a bit more sunshine". I'm afraid your insularity really is showing here. (For a start, it's a lot more sunshine.) Hundreds of thousands of Brits visit New Zealand and Australia every year, and tens of thousands of them apparently find something compelling enough to move here every year.

I doubt many of them leave without a backwards glance and find it easy. So they must have pretty good reasons that they're convinced they're going somewhere better suited to them. Is that really so impossible to understand? Not everyone wants to stay in the town where they were born their whole lives, and if they don't, it doesn't make them a soulless asshole?

I'm interested to find out where my DC settle. DH and I are both British but have lived in Asia for a decade and the DC were born here, will likely spend most of their childhoods here and have permanent right to remain. I expect DH and I will return to the UK in the next decade, but there's no real reason why the DC would feel any sort of draw to it, given they only visit for holidays (we go for a month every summer). PLus they have grown up amongst people who move internationally a lot. Quite a lot of kids who grow up here and then go overseas for Uni do end up coming back, even if their parents move "home" as there's a lot of work here and for them, it's "home".

Tbh I dont have an expectation that i'll live in the same country as my grown up children.

I live in Australia. I am widowed with one adult child. I hope I would bear it with the dignity and love that my MIL, at 89, said goodbye to her only son when we moved to Australia 12 years ago.

We never saw her alive again.

You have to live your life, and I must and will suck it up if and when my time comes.