To be absolutely raging that women's rights and well-being count for absolutely nothing?

[Betti935]

A woman with mental health issues whose psychosis meant she was terrified that men wanted to kill her was placed on a "women only" secure psychiatric ward with someone who was obviously a biological male.

The NHS Trust seems to have labelled her a bigot and has confirmed that they will continue to let anyone self-identify as whatever gender they want and be housed on the sex-segregated ward of their choice, regardless of the needs of or risks to vulnerable women.

The woman in question has since had a relapse of her condition but hasn't felt able to access medical treatment because of this.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/terrified-patient-treated-like-transphobic-bigot-bsfsgrv2p

Well I don't know who you are asking that to granny but heart attack would be the first one that springs to my mind.

You don't seem interested in having the same conversation as everyone else though.

here's a link oyu can stop asking now

except that you, know, the government pledged to get rid of mixed sex psychiatric wards over a decade ago.

not sure if any still exist. www.theguardian.com/society/joepublic/2009/jan/23/mental-health-mixed-sex-wards

I still don't know what all these conditions are that men are getting better treatment for than women get.

You mean other than the glaringly obvious example in the OP of mental health?

Well, they exist, obviously, as evidenced by the OP, but are rendered magically invisible due to the Cloak of GenderWoo

upabitlate

Do you know what really pisses me off? Its this

Without displaying the classic chest pain symptoms of a heart attack

They dont mean classic...they mean mens

(To be fair it may well be that OVERALL more people get chest pain...so I shouldn't be pissed off )

Mixed sex wards when it's things like intensive care are unavoidable really, I mean I think this is fine, there are always people on duty right there and people aren't up and about.

General wards where people can be up and about and where there isn't always someone oversseing things = no from me.

Psychiatric or otherwise where there is a risk of violence I'm going with no way. Women are in general much smaller than men. And that's before you get onto the whole sexual violence thing.

I believe the risk would be treated as obvious if it were a 20yo transman who had had no treatment wanting to be housed in the secure mens unit.

The other way around it is not. It's interesting.

Good spot Rufus on men as default. So hard to notice a lot of the time.

On the all women shortlist for Rushcliffe borough...

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1776250165741316&id=309833935716287

the 'likes'/comments on that fb post make it very clear what people think. surprised the Nott Post didn't ruthlessly censor the comments.

This is a very weird thread with some very weird ideas about how psych wards work. When I was in my psych ward I was terrified of screens. I remember freaking out at a nurse with a phone. They were being used to track me by my enemies.

I didn't get right of veto over phones in the ward! People get put in a ward with the object of their paranoid delusions all the time!

"Mixed sex wards when it's things like intensive care are unavoidable really,"

They are still recorded fastidiously as a breach of segregated sex wards, albeit a 'justified breach'.
There's an example in the rules that says in that circumstance, when a patient is ready to leave IT for anot her ward, but a bed is unavailable, so they remain in the ITU, at that point the breach becomes an 'unjustified breach'.

The rules about no mixed sex wards are apparently very strict.
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/09/MSA-FAQ-v1.0.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiszou_y93YAhXIzRQKHYq2BrMQFjAAegQIDRAB&usg=AOvVaw1pkE0ua5snN7ae1Qm8FggZ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the rules

This'll make you rage: the hypocrisy of ministers over sex segregation given what is happening now. A spokesperson said: “All NHS patients deserve to be treated with dignity and men and women shouldn’t be forced to share hospital accommodation.

It's not just heart attacks where the diagnosis defaults to that of men.

Autism is woefully under diagnosed in women because it was coined extreme male brain and women have different symptoms. Often missed, because the symptom criteria defaults, again, to that of men.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/05/are-women-with-autism-being-failed-by-nhs

Well I don't know who you are asking that to granny but heart attack would be the first one that springs to my mind. Really? That is exactly the reason I was admitted to hospital a few months back. I had fantastic care, I was triaged by GP, I was feeling fine but had been unwell in the night. I was told I could go to surgery and be seen straight away but if I had someone with me who could drive I should go straight to A & E and I would be seen straight away. Within 2 or 3 minutes of arriving at the hospital I was having an ECG and then moved to cubicles where a specialist nurse from the cardiac unit came to see me to tell me she thought I was going to be admitted. I laughed and said I was fine. She said to wait to see the doctor but she would see me on the unit.

I was treated fantastically, the men on the ward were treated exactly the same as me. So no I don't agree that women are treated differently to men with heart attacks.

You mean other than the glaringly obvious example in the OP of mental health? She was getting the same treatment.

This is a very weird thread with some very weird ideas about how psych wards work. When I was in my psych ward I was terrified of screens. I remember freaking out at a nurse with a phone. They were being used to track me by my enemies.

I didn't get right of veto over phones in the ward! People get put in a ward with the object of their paranoid delusions all the time! Which was exactly my point when someone said this wouldn't happen with anything else that a patient was objecting to.

Snowzicle hope you are feeling better.

Granny - my dad was in hospital a lot last year. He had fantastic care in a very clean, well staffed and well run hospital (Peterborough). Twice he was brought in by ambulance and treated immediately. It doesn't mean that all the stories about the NHS in crisis aren't true though, it's just one experience. He was lucky, don't disbelieve others just because your experience doesn't match theirs.

YANBU at all. This case is doubly bad as the woman's needs have been completely discounted and because a disabled woman's needs have been totally disregarded. I can't believe that there wasn't some other solution here.

Granny on heart attacks you are happy to discard the studies that have been done, including the massively different death rates between men and women who have heart attacks, and agreed as an issue by the NHS, because you personally had a good experience?

So the fact that women are more likely to die than men because their symptoms are not being correctly identified, and they are not receiving appropriate treatment, is NO ISSUE to you because of your personal single experience?

Wow.

So your view is that all this info is what, irrelevant and no action should be taken. Women dying needlessly is fine, is it? Because to acknowledge that they are doesn't support your worldview, your argument?

Well that explains your attitude on this thread. And quite a lot actually.

This is awful. Women need to complain when they see this happening. No shutting up like the good little transmaidens we're supposed to be.

Women have good reason to be nervous of sharing spaces with men and stats back this up.

I'm really glad the mainstream media is starting to question the trans agenda.

here's another link

here

I'm genuinely taken aback that anyone would discard this.

This is the issue we have had forever, women's symptoms, pain etc being disregarded, put down to mental health issues when there is a physical problem, and even now when there is this massive fucking study saying women are DYING unnecessarily, you get another woman on a thread saying yeah I don't agree with that (how can you agree or disagree with facts?) because it doesn't support my worldview. This is EXACTLY the problem we are having especially in the USA with people trusting "news" from people and sources they agree with and discarding science, facts, broadly trusted reporting organisations. It's a massive worry.

Anyway I think it says a lot about that poster.

Presumably it's a small step to "not agreeing with" the stats around violent crime and sexual violence either.

And the FACT that men are way more violent than women, and the perpetrators of the overwhelming majority of sexual offences.

In which case it's fine to have mixed wards including psychiatric ones, mixed prisons etc.

So I guess the TAs see criminal stats as "false news" same as MRAs, from that perspective. Unless the person at risk is trans, and then suddenly men are violent. It's just not coherent is it.

Women aren't 50% of heart attacks,

Your point still stands though.

The telegraph headline is that "Middle-aged women who suffer heart attacks are 60 per cent more likely to die from them than male victims, the largest study of its kind shows."

Granny says that as she personally had good treatment, she is ?not interested ? doesn't believe it ?isn't interested

So I wouldn't bother if I were you.

upabitlate

Come on

Surely you realise that if it hasn't happened to granny then it doesn't happen

Forget the research, statistics, women dying and the concerns of the NHS

You mean other than the glaringly obvious example in the OP of mental health?
"She was getting the same treatment"

I'm not sure how you missed this, but the man's delusion was indulged/ the woman's was not. (Obviously neither should have been affirmed)
The man was treated in a ward of people of the opposite sex despite this being against guidance because his wellbeing and supreme right to deny dignity to women trumped the rights of every single woman to the dignity the NHS guidelines had already acknowledged as apparently important.

Oh, and a woman patient asserting her right was treated as a bigot.

How does that sound like similar treatment of mental health conditions to you? If you don't think the surroundings, attitude of HCPs, privacy and dignity concerns comprise part of the overall treatment of patients then perhaps we should treat all patients naked in the hospital car park and save some resources.

Surely you realise that if it hasn't happened to granny then it doesn't happen

I've long been amazed that whatever it is that Granny is arguing against or for she always has a personal anecdote that backs up what she says or contradicts the opposite POV. Sometimes this is something she has experienced and sometimes it is something that a relative has experienced, and she seems to have relatives (sons) in a range of relevant professions. And of course, because it is her personal experience it is true to the core and true for everybody.