To be absolutely raging that women's rights and well-being count for absolutely nothing?

[Betti935]

A woman with mental health issues whose psychosis meant she was terrified that men wanted to kill her was placed on a "women only" secure psychiatric ward with someone who was obviously a biological male.

The NHS Trust seems to have labelled her a bigot and has confirmed that they will continue to let anyone self-identify as whatever gender they want and be housed on the sex-segregated ward of their choice, regardless of the needs of or risks to vulnerable women.

The woman in question has since had a relapse of her condition but hasn't felt able to access medical treatment because of this.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/terrified-patient-treated-like-transphobic-bigot-bsfsgrv2p

This story is terrible. I also think the point with the notes is incredibly important: it's been summarised as 'the patient is a terfy bigot' but actually, imagine how much worse it would have been if it had read 'the patient is a woman with an irrational fear of another woman'.

I'm not expressing that terribly well but what I mean is, at least the HCP doing the notes referred to the other patient as trans. The 'correct' way of doing it would be to call them another woman, if we are to take self identification to its natural conclusion. So suddenly there's no true record of the situation...

True Lonny. It's almost like we need separate words for people with penises and people with vulvae. If only we had ANY way to invent those words.

Perhaps if you have ever had a womb we could call you a woman.

And if not then we could call you a man.

And then you could wear whatever lipstick and makeup you like in either case.

“The Equality Act offers guidance about the admission of transgender people to NHS wards and this is something we have also taken legal advice on. This directs that transgender people should be able to self-identify and receive treatment on the ward that is appropriate and in line with that self-identification.”

I'm curious how this would work if a transperson was admitted to hospital with a medical condition specific to the gender they were born (eg cervical cancer, prostate cancer). Could a transwoman demand to be on a ward with women whilst they have prostate cancer, instead of being on a more specialised ward? I know for example that the some hospitals have a specialist prostate cancer unit, so surely someone born male and suffering with prostate cancer could not demand to be housed elsewhere, regardless of their self identification?

Interesting point, Midnite.

Perhaps if you have ever had a womb we could call you a woman.

Womb-en and non-womb-en should do.

There is a massive difference between a worker; paid to be there, able to leave and well, and a patient; vulnerable, often not able to leave, ill. Yes there is, it isn't the staff who are doing the assaulting.

I know phillipa, I told mn about this a while back.

Very, very brave woman to take it public

The Equality Act offers guidance about the admission of transgender people to NHS wards and this is something we have also taken legal advice on. This directs that transgender people should be able to self-identify and receive treatment on the ward that is appropriate and in line with that self-identification.”

I'm pretty sure the equality act has a sex based exemption for things like hospital wards...

The trust in question have failed to properly understand her psychological needs.

If you were afraid of spiders, you wouldn't stick a mentally ill patient in a room of spiders.

Anxiety is grounded in how you perceive things to be. You have no control over it. That's the fucking point.

When she states that she was afraid of a patient - any patient - that should be taken seriously because of her mental well being.

For all the Trust know, she could have had an anxiety attack and lashed out at the other patient. That's not good for the other patient either.

Trusts have duties of care to all patients. They have to see even what they class as 'irrational' or bigoted through this lens.

In refusing to take her concerns seriously they have broken the trust of the patient with HCP. That also is damaging to her health and it makes someone less likely to seek help when they need it. And guess what has happened.

This is a case of putting politics above safeguarding and understanding the needs of someone who is vulnerable and unwell.

Its not about trans rights v womens rights. Its about pure neglect in the care of a vulnerable patient.

It is important it is framed as the latter and not the former as this is half the fucking problem at the moment.

.

I think this needs saying here and apologise if it has already I have missed it...

There were two delusional patients in this situation, it's not just an ill woman and an ill transwoman.
The trust prioritised the needs of the delusional male over those of the delusional female, and colluded in the delusion of the male.
This is not equality.

I think the trust prioritised the person who was not seeking the removal of the other person. That person wasn't asking for anything, just a bed in a medical facility. The other person was asking for a bed in a medical facility and for someone to be removed due to their phobia of that person.

Everyone has a RIGHT to the most appropriate care FOR THEIR ILLNESS under the NHS.

This is supposed to protect the most vulnerable FIRST not last.

If you are ill and afraid of being attacked by men (or someone you perceive in anyway to be a threat to you) and this is documented as what you are in hospital to be treated for then the NHS should be taking this seriously, not calling you a bigot.

Because you are ill and vulnerable and if the situation isn't addressed it could cause harm.

This is a basic lack of understanding of mental health and provision of what you should get by rights as an NHS patient.

The point here, is that the NHS are not treating women who are vulnerable, and unlikely to complain, well enough. They are breaching safeguarding and think they can get away with not caring for patients appropriately because they think they can get away with it.

That person wasn't asking for anything, just a bed in a medical facility.

A bed in a facility based on their self-perceived gender rather than actual sex. That is a massive ask.

"I think the trust prioritised the person who was not seeking the removal of the other person. That person wasn't asking for anything, just a bed in a medical facility. The other person was asking for a bed in a medical facility and for someone to be removed due to their phobia of that person."

Not 'just a bed', a women's bed just because they said so. How is it that not more demanding than, er, not demanding arbitrary shit based on no objective fact whatsoever?

I mean if I want to Oxford and demanded a first class honours degree, and then students got pissed off because I'm not qualified & haven't done any work, would you say they were being unreasonable because they were demanding my removal?

I see we have woman framed as demanding something, rather than being entitled to the most appropriate accommodation and care based on her health care needs and problems.

Let me repeat.

Every people has a RIGHT to the most appropriate care for their circumstances under the NHS.

Women need to speak up for their current rights and we aware of what they actually are and be encouraged that they should do so and its normal to ask for what you should get as a minimum default.

I don’t think it’s about prioritising patients.

I think it’s about expecting someone out of touch with reality to accept that a man is actually a woman and labelling them as transphobic when they weren’t able to.

I think it’s bloody harmful to force someone to deny reality when they’re already struggling with reality. That’s the crux of this.

Very good point, left

NHS wards are supposed to be single sex.

The cruel trick of demanding that women already struggling with mental illness not only accept that a man is a woman because of an invisible, intangible, self proclaimed 'female essence', BUT also that THEIR female bodies and experiences are irrelevant AND THAT THEY TOO are only female because of invisible female brain essence, hence all females together on a ward, what's your problem.
There can't be much that is more cruel than to try to convince patients with mental health problems to release their grip on reality and pretend to accept a lie.

I just don’t understand why a man who thinks he’s a woman is encouraged to live in a delusion and everyone around them has to support their delusions rather than working with them and encouraging them to accept their body whilst wearing and acting however they feel.

If someone has body dismorphia and thinks their nose is too big when it’s actually normal sized then surely doctors wouldn’t encourage them to get a nose job because that’s not going to solve the problem of them not seeing their body as it really is, why are trans people any differently?

Exactly. It’s like letting anorexics starve. Except the transgender males are making women suffer instead of themselves.

NHS wards are supposed to be single sex. But they aren't all single sex. It is just a fact. I was in hospital last year and I was in a mixed ward. Only 3 women and 20 something men. It was a specialist cardiac ward and I assumed it reflected the fact that men are more likely to have heart trouble but don't know if that is true. The hospital still doesn't have a specialist ward for women but I don't know why but they don't.

Every people has a RIGHT to the most appropriate care for their circumstances under the NHS. Do you think that will work for the people dying on trolleys in corridors?