AIBU to tell women to get married before they have babies

[NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1]

This forum is absolutely full up of the following stories, repeated on a loop

Woman falls in love with selfish twunt (doesn't realise at this stage he is a selfish twunt)
Woman is persuaded to move into the home selfish twunt owns, or is persuaded to by a house but only in selfish twunts name because (insert excuse here)
Woman suffers "contraceptive failure"
Woman gives up her job to look after children.
Twunt has got her exactly where he wants her - now he can fuck other women without any fear of financial loss

I am so so saddened to keep reading these threads on here time and time again.

Women - protect yourself. There is a reason why a man won't marry you AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE HE'S OLD FASHIONED.

Really?

I got married before I had a baby then had to fight a legal battle to untangle myself from the prick.

It's 2018. Women don't need to emotionally and financially shackle themselves to another human being.

Women don't need to emotionally and financially shackle themselves to another human being.

Slightly off-point, but DP and I aren't married and don't particularly want to be. But we WOULD like one of us to be able to leave the house to the other if either of us goes under a bus. The only way we can do that without paying crippling amounts of inheritance tax on it is to marry.

So for financial security I DO need to financially shackle myself to him. Which doesn't strike me as fair.

I can't agree about the getting married part. As a an old gimmer though with that special super power hindsight and years of observing friends making terrible decisions I would agree with the fact that women must, must stand firm on retaining their right to make their own choices.

The second you start to hand over those rights, dolled up as they may be as someone else's suggestion of a rosy future, you've lost your own power.

So many women lose their reason and innate ability to spot a rat, stop listening to people who try to help them identity the rat then strap themselves to the rat by having children.

I agree there are rats hiding their true colours, but most (not all obviously as we see from posters all the time) can't keep up a a facade consistently. In most cases of catastrophe I've seen it'll start with snarky comments to the women in front of her friends and family, but for some reason those friends are always wrong. It'll be snidey behaviour about money or sharing, but that's always because she can't be trusted with the finances. It'll be the fact only the women can ever possibly look after the kids, when the rat does he's babysitting.

On and on and on until all the women's power is handed over. We'll never get rid of rats but we must get better at spotting one and knowing that once a rat always a rat.

"it isnt very romantic but marriage is basically just a contract setting out rights and responsibilities."

I agree Diggledraggle. I think the big dress and the fancy party are just useful ways of hooking you into the contract at a point in the relationship where you would otherwise be thinking "Oh there's no need to put any hinges in writing. We are soul mates and he would never do anything to hurt me"

Having said that it's not the best for every situation. It has negative effects on state benefit entitlement and gives the man parental rights over children born into the marriage. Depending on how much of a twat he is, this may not be something you want.

If there's going to be property or significant amounts of money earned (and especially if you expect to earn less) then marriage is in your interests.

Yeah you are. It’s really none of your business. I don’t believe in marriage anymore and won’t ever be doing it again. DP asked when he asked if we could try for a baby but I declined. As the main wage earner there is no financial benefit to me and plenty of repercussions if it goes wrong. But also my DP is a lovely kind man who is far from being a twunt.

Yanbu, but they won't listen.
I'm probably out of touch but when I and my contemporaries were settling down it was still a bit of scandal to get pregnant outside of wedlock.
Obviously I wouldn't want a return of those attitudes but I do think some women now don't understand how marriage is often in their interest.

It's not just women. In my relationship, I own the house and I earn the money - DP sold his house and gave up his job to be SAHD. I'm having to force him to see a solicitor to protect himself on the title register for the house 🙈 - it's only fair. We might get married one day, but not right now.

I think the overall message is fine, but it's a bit old fashioned to assume it only applies to women.

Also, let's not forget that marriage was designed by men, for men's benefit at the expense of women (just like everything else for the past few thousand years). Some of the recent adaptations of it have made it potentially better and more equitable, but some have not.

It's not exactly cheap to get divorced, either.

Not married, 2 kids, together 22 years. Would never have agreed to him buying the house in his name though.

Learn to spot the twat signs and avoid at all costs. Learn to stop convincing yourself that he's actually a nice guy.

This is far more important.

Depends on the situation. I married before I had DS but wouldn't have been an issue if we didn't. We rented, kept our finances separate and as such divorce only cost us £150 as we had no assets together and neither of us wanted anything from the other.

Lol I’ve been married and NOTHING in it benefitted me. It cost a fortune to get divorced and I was the one paying out. My current position is far more secure. Also the most secure relationship I know is two people who are getting married next week after 30 years of living in sin.

Very unreasonable.

I was much more financially stable than my partner when we had DS1 - I owned my own property, and had higher earning potential. I also took a short maternity leave, so wasn't materially disadvantaged by being out of the workforce.

It's bizarre to assume that the woman is always in a weaker financial position - I'm not sure why you feel you're able to make such sweeping statements on behalf of people you know nothing about.

No I wouldn’t recommend getting married for those reasons.

Maybe know that your worth more than some arsehole?
Maybe do all you can with contraception to protect yourself again an unwanted pregnancy? Obviously not all but Many ‘accidents’ are down to not taking the contraception right.
Maybe don’t rely on a man completely for money? Even if you work just a few hours it means you are not completely reliant on a man.

I married dh becuase I love him, I didn’t need to protect myself as I own 1/2 the house, I’ve got my own business and my own money.

Agree with others the problem wasn't lack of marriage, but the choice to build a life with a crap man in the first place. Marriage does offer protections, but not fucking fuckwits is the best advice ever.

What coffeeorsleep says!

I agree with other posters that you should not assume the female partner is automatically the vulnerable one financially. Many of us would stand to lose assets and security that we have worked many years to achieve if we were to marry, have children and then divorce.

Hmm. I think it is a contract, and with all contracts there are advantages and disadvantages.
I'm glad we are tied financially, I couldn't even pay the mortgage on half our house.

Those of you not married you do realise that you would not be considered as legal next if kin if something happened to one of you?

I don't think that's applicable to UK - I belive there is no legal definition. I think you can nominate people and they don't have to spouses or blood relations.

I'd agree in wider world more understanding marriage comes with some inbuilt legal protections wouldn't be a bad thing and what limitations there are as well.

I think it's possibly part of a wider discussion.

It’s also not taking into account that we’ve moved on from “man is breadwinner, woman depends on man”, this isn’t the case in the majority of relationships in my circle at all. Certainly not my own.

I think if you desperately want to get married, then you should insist on it before you have children and not assume he will marry you afterwards if he is reluctant before. He's likely to be reluctant afterwards too, except now you are shackled to him for life because you have a child together. But yes, try not to have a baby with a twunt is probably the best advice!

I’d argue that forcing someone who is reluctant to marry isn’t going to result in a great marriage surely?

Surely if it was because he was old fashioned like you shouted at us, he would want to get married.
You don't make sense.

I think that's the point OP was making gilly. People on here often say they and/or their DP want him to propose rather than the woman making the decision, because they're traditional. But a person who is cohabiting and has had children outside marriage is not traditional- so if you're not already married in that situation, that's not the reason!

I do believe in marriage. I married for love, but these days I am hugely glad that I am married for other reasons too.

I was on another forum at the time of giving birth and there was a 'birth month' group that I followed during my pregnancy. It was a real eye-opener to me to see the number of co-habiting relationships that broke down in the few months after babies were born - often following a blazing row about the father not doing enough to help with the new baby. He would ship out to his mum's for a night, that night would then become a week, the new mother would be devastated and a further blazing row would be had by text, then he would be seen out on the town with a new girlfriend and wouldn't come back...Mum would be left holding the baby and once the couple were no longer cohabiting, it seemed that there were no real ties to hold them together...

I am not saying that this happens to every unmarried couple, but it was just what I observed.

I don't want my spouse tied to me solely by legal obligation (a ball and chain is more secure!), but I do think that the legal ties of marriage and property can, in many circumstances, help to prevent a small row becoming a split.

In answer to the OP, YANBU to want people to think about this before settling down, but YABU to generalise a lot.

Marriage is better for women as a class because it benefits the less wealthy party and that's more likely to be us. Regardless of whether this is true of one's own personal circumstances or circle, it's true of society as a whole. So if we all got married before having children, we as a cohort would be better off than we all didn't. But that's a bad reason to get married if you're one of the significant minority of women who have more wealth than their male DP (though you may still want to marry anyway for other reasons). So YANBU to point out what's true for the majority, but YABU to suggest the minority should also make their choices on the same basis.

YANBU to say that it would be a good idea, if you know you want to get married, not to effectively give away any leverage. It's not about forcing your partner, but if someone knows they won't be able to have babies with you and set up home with you if you're married, their decision process might be different than it would be if you're happy to give them everything they want regardless.

Or it might not be, in which case you need to decide whether marriage is important enough to you to forego babies with someone you're not married to- but either way, it's good for it to be an informed decision. Much better than sleepwalking into something.

YABU to think marriage is always protection, it's not. On average, we're better off married than not, but that doesn't mean it's a substitute for other provisions. You can still end up screwed.

What is not likely to be a good idea is giving up work to be a SAHP for the kids of someone you're not married to, working unofficially in their business that you don't part own, paying utility bills in a home you live in but don't own. No woman should choose any of these without thinking very carefully. But you can be unmarried without doing any of that.