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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Inheritance - AIBU to have everything crossed for a windfall?

195 replies

UnravelMyMind · 10/01/2018 13:02

I have a namechanged for this because it may get very identifying...

Early last year my parental grandmother died. She left a small amount of money to me, and the rest of her estate to her two sons, one of whom is my dad . My dad hurriedly left the country 12 years ago to escape from HMRC so his share of the money was to be kept by his brother, who was going to send him an allowance every year.

In October my dad died of cancer, very suddenly. Neither me or his brother had had a lot to do with him for the previous 10 years, very long story but basically he's a compulsive liar) although we did go out and see him in the country he was living a few weeks before he died.

His brother has now sold his mothers house and so has doubled the amount of money he was due to inherit because he will no longer have to share it with his brother.

I do not feel comfortable asking his brother about this, hence I am driving myself mad thinking about it and hoping that it will occur to him to share some with myself as it's money he would not have had if it was not for the death of my father / his brother. Not all of it, it's an extra £150,000, but at least something...? £30k for example ?

OP posts:
StaplesCorner · 10/01/2018 14:28

Who was the OP adopted by? You mean that the deceased person is her biological father, but she was adopted into another family?

StaplesCorner · 10/01/2018 14:28

Sorry OP, I should have asked you that, you'd know!!

angieloumc · 10/01/2018 14:30

I absolutely agree that money can bring out the worst in people.
Morally your uncle may feel he should give you some money but I suspect that legally, as you were adopted, he is under no obligation.

DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:31

Who was the OP adopted by? You mean that the deceased person is her biological father, but she was adopted into another family?

Her stepfather. OP said this already.

StaplesCorner · 10/01/2018 14:31

I need shooting, I see you have already explained, and I see the issue.
I agree with posters saying see what your Uncle says and if you want to run it past a solicitor afterwards then all well and good.

UnravelMyMind · 10/01/2018 14:31

I am adopted, but by my mothers subsequent husband rather than a whole new family. I remained involved with my dad's family (yes, I agree it's a weird arrangement, I was too young to understand at the time!) Basically, my mothers husband adopted me when they got married so we all had the same surname and it also meant that I would have been officially his daughter and able to have school fee's etc paid for when we moved to the middle east shortly after. Otherwise I would not have been entitled to any of the perks as I would not be viewed as his daughter. It was't because anyone fell out or lost contact with anyone, but purely for the benefit of my adoptive dad's package for work!

That sounds bonkers written down doesn't it...

OP posts:
honeylulu · 10/01/2018 14:32

Not knowing exactly what the will says it is hard to comment with precision. (I am a solicitor but not a probate one, lol!)

However, it sounds as if (aside from the cash bequest to you) the GM left the remainder of her estate to be split between your Dad and Uncle, with your Dad's share being held in trust for him by your Uncle and an allowance paid from it.

The allowance is likely to have been limited in some way - often it is any income earned by the trust (interest, rent etc) and as your Uncle retained the property until recently, it is likely that any allowance was paid only from your Dad's share of the liquid (cash) estate, leaving the half share of property equity intact. (It is possible that your Uncle may have mortgaged the property to release further cash sums to your father, which would have eaten into his share but I am just speculating here.)

It is likely that some or all of your Dad's share of property equity remained at the time of his death and that has now been liquidated by your Uncle on the sale of the house, of which he was (presumably the legal owner.)

There are a number of possibilities.

Your best chance (legally supported) would be if your GM will also specifies what is to happen to your father's share after the trust is dissolved i.e. upon his death. This is referred to as having a "life interest" rather than a complete entitlement to the estate. She may have specified that any remaining sum passes to you (good) or Uncle/someone else. If this is the case, i.e. that you are entitled to the reversion, then your Uncle as trustee/executor is obliged to discharge the proceeds to you. Provided the will names you in this way, your adoption is irrelevant.

If the will does not state what happens to your Dad's share once the trust dissolves, then it depends on whether he left a will and therefore if you are the named beneficiary. You do not think that he did so I assume this is correct.

If no will then he died intestate. His share will therefore pass to any offspring (unfortunately as you were adopted your legal relationship to your father will be considered severed). If no offspring, then to surviving parents (I think, but I presume there are none). If no parent then to siblings. Assuming your Uncle is the only sibling he will probably get the lot and anything he chooses to give you will be a voluntary gift only.

The HMRC debts complicate things as creditors are entitled to be paid out of the proceeds of the deceased's estate before the beneficiaries. So if you or your Uncle are beneficiaries you will probably have to pay HMRC what is due. However, if your Dad only had a "life interest" in your GM's (half) estate then arguably his estate is limited to the income/fixed allowance which presumably he spent. The remainder of "his" half of GM's estate (called "the reversion" in probate law) is protected in this case I THINK but if this seems to be the case, this is where a probate lawyer would be very helpful to you, to make sure the creditors are dealt with correctly so there are no nasty surprises.

Good luck OP. I think the most helpful thing I can say is that its important to know exactly what your GM will says. If it is not in your favour then fingers crossed your Uncle might be generous.

One last thing, you mentioned that your Dad owed your Uncle money so he may also be a creditor who would be entitled to claim such sums (provided that he can evidence them) before the estate is distributed, either legally or by way of gift.

Bowerbird5 · 10/01/2018 14:34

I haven't read all the posts just first page but your father might have left a will with the solicitor or his bank. Check and don't agree to anything with you uncle yet as you may be entitled to more than you think. Don't forget English and Scottish law can be different too. You need a solicitor.

UnravelMyMind · 10/01/2018 14:35

honey really helpful, thank you! Off to get DS from school now but will read it properly when I get back.

OP posts:
DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:36

It doesn't make any difference why you were adopted, OP. Your bio father was not your legal father, your adopted father is. You inherit from the latter but not the former.

DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:37

honey, OP has a copy of the bio grandmothers will, so she must know already that the bio fathers interests are not left to her, otherwise there would be no reason to post her.

DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:37

here

whiskyowl · 10/01/2018 14:37

I recognise you too, OP, just from the circumstances of your Dad's situation and the clarity of your writing style. Knowing a bit of the background, I also think you really should get your share.

I hope your meeting with your uncle goes well and that he volunteers to do the right thing. I would put it all in the hands of a solicitor, though, even if he does. It sounds as though there may be a tax bill to sort out as well as an estate to unravel.

UnravelMyMind · 10/01/2018 14:38

DrMartha I know this, I was just explaining the situation to someone who asked if I was 'adopted into another family'

OP posts:
DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:41

I thought you would, but most other pp seem not to understand your situation.

Rubies12345 · 10/01/2018 14:45

Your father's estate has to be dealt with properly, he can't just give you something and you both keep quiet!

There are debts to be settled they could pursue you. You (and any children of your father) are the beneficiaries. Assuming there definitely isn't a will.

DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:46

There are debts to be settled they could pursue you. You (and any children of your father) are the beneficiaries. Assuming there definitely isn't a will
No and no.

Does anyone RTFT?

honeylulu · 10/01/2018 14:46

DrMartha I know the OP has a copy of her GM will but I was pointing out that it may come down to the finer detail of the wording.
Phrases like reversion and life interest may not mean much to someone unfamiliar with legal jargon.
From what OP said earlier it sounded like she was in possession of a copy of the will but didn't have it in front of her at the time, which is why I suggested a careful study of it,

UnravelMyMind · 10/01/2018 14:47

Martha ah, I thought you were repeatedly telling me the same thing about my own adoption situation!

OP posts:
Rubies12345 · 10/01/2018 14:48

Oops scrap what I said. I see now you're adopted it's nothing to do with you, you can walk away

DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:49

I know I'm posting repeatedly, but its like an aibu car crash! So many people not reading the actual words and giving their own opinions anyway, plucked out of the air. Can't tear myself away from it.

IAmNotThrowingAwayMyShot · 10/01/2018 14:50

I’m not sure the adoption is an automatic dealbreaker. I’m a solicitor though not probate, and I do not profess to have any knowledge about probate. I do know, however, that in other areas of the law (e.g. contracts) courts will look to the facts and intentions of the parties rather than simply what’s written on paper. If OP’s father continued to treat her as his daughter for his lifetime even though he was a shitty father I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there is scope to set aside the adoption, either entirely or for the sake of this situation, and allow the OP to inherit his estate. OP you really, really should go spend a half hour with a probate solicitor. It doesn’t mean you’re going to fight your uncle or let things get ugly, in fact your uncle never even needs to know you went. But you should go into your discussion with him armed with a clear understanding of what you are legally entitled to, which is a complicated question, as this thread makes clear. It is indeed true that inheritance issues can make otherwise rational people behave badly, and you need to look out for your own rights.

Can I also say that I hate all the sanctimonious tropes that come up on every single inheritance-related thread? Anyone who claims s/he wouldn’t at least investigate his/her entitlements when a relative dies under tricky circumstances is either a liar or a complete idiot.

blueshoes · 10/01/2018 14:50

I agree with other posters to check your legal position first.

IF you are prepared to thrash your relationship with your father's brother (because that is probably what will happen anyway once you go down this route), then even if at law you are not entitled to anything, if the brother does not make a voluntary gift to you, your bargaining chip is that you can report this to the HMRC who will look into their share.

That is basically how the chips stack up. How you play this hand is up to you.

ArnoldBee · 10/01/2018 14:51

I have scrolled to the end so apologies if this have been covered but my understanding is that if you have been legally adopted you are not an automatic beneficiary to your father's will anymore.

DrMarthaJones · 10/01/2018 14:52

F you are prepared to thrash your relationship with your father's brother (because that is probably what will happen anyway once you go down this route), then even if at law you are not entitled to anything, if the brother does not make a voluntary gift to you, your bargaining chip is that you can report this to the HMRC who will look into their share. That is basically how the chips stack up. How you play this hand is up to you

This just keeps getting better! You should blackmail someone to get hold of their money! MN is great, isn't it?

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