To think the no pubes thing is a trend....

[inmyshoos]

My previous career had me seeing people's genitals on a daily basis. Most had full pubic hair. Now I can see (mostly on naked attraction) that fully shaved is the fashion.
But was slightly surprised when a 50 something friend of mine said he prefers shaven as I assumed he would be less 'trendy' like me with my 80s stylefanny
Is it just a personal preference?? In my day at work it was defo rare to see fully shaved. Out of 20 people you'd be lucky if 2 were bald!

Not a trend. Britain’s just catching up with something many people in lots of different parts of the world both male and female have been doing for generations. In the Middle East and most of Asia you would be considered manky to have a bush on your groin and under your armpits! It’s done for hygiene reasons. For Muslims it’s compulsory.

It's definitely not cleaner to drag a razor over delicate pubic areas, nor to wax - so says a friend who found it a great way to spread molluscum contagiosum over the entire area! You can't really remove all the hair from an area of your body without increasing your chances of picking up and spreading a viral or bacterial skin infection.

Molluascum contagiosum - gah! That's horrendous! My daughter had it when she was a toddler all one side of her torso - not pretty.

Overherepal. White skin? Did you really say that? Gosh.

RampantRegina, I also have a daughter. I'm aware of the pressures on young children (girls) to comply. I'm not naïve and I'm not dismissing anybody's opinion but I don't have to agree with it.

Why do the non-removers feel so defensive about a position that NOBODY is telling them they shouldn't take? Do what you want with your own body and don't be led by other people. By the same token - stop telling other people what they should and shouldn't be doing. Is that really so difficult?

Because it’s a feminist issue. Young girls and women are exposed to bullshit, sexist social pressure that boys and men aren’t.

For example the PP’s comment that in some cultures it’s considered “manky” or less “hygienic” for women not to remove hair. But not men, presumably.

Plenty of people on here saying "it's cleaner" "sex is better". No harm in disagreeing with that. It implies people who don't remove pubic hair are dirty and have bad sex. That's a pretty strong opinion to throw about and expect it to go unanswered.

Lying -

Eh??

I'm not telling anybody what to do/ what not to do regarding anything to do with their body. I wouldn't dream of it.

My issue was your sweeping statement purporting that society has little or no influence over people.

That is what I don't agree with.

Dozer, Obviously. It doesn't however give women the right to berate other women for the choices that they make for their own bodies. I will NEVER change my mind on that. We keep banging on about bodily autonomy and then add a little codicil of "Unless you are wrong enough to want to remove your pubic hair (but leg hair is fine if it's for visibility or there's another random reason)".

What are feminists actually doing to address this issue with men/boys given that they are the chief proponents of this sexism?

And the "white skin" post is pretty gross.

Rampant Okey dokey then. We will agree to disagree.

shhhfastasleep Regarding 'cleaner', you can't argue how it makes me feel though. I very clearly made the distinction that I'm speaking for myself, for my own body, my particular chemistry. Only I can do that and likewise, I cannot and am not speaking for anybody else.

But, Lying, is your idea of 'cleaner' affected by what we're told? The messages we get as women?

I've been shaving for 20 years, sorry tmi but my dh and I love seeing what's happening there during intercourse. How incredibly patronising to imply we don't have the intelligence to weigh up our own lives and make informed decisions. So many high minded and self righteous opinions on here, as if everyone but you blindly folliws 'trends'. It's my body and I'll do what I want with it without sad little judgements on mumsnet. As for the mention of anal sex, same, people can make informed choices about their own sex lives and bodies and it's not a trend, it's being alive. Quite frankly a large proportion if you need to grow up.

Don't care how it makes you feel but it is telling that you don't criticise those who strongly imply non-shavers are dirty.
If my dd or any other girl had to face that sort of indifference when others are overtly offensive, they would be being bullied. Me? I don't care, I'm adult and find some of these dirty/shit sex comments amusing. But a young girl, faced with it, would feel pressure. What young girl likes to be called dirty?

RampantRegina, I've re-read your post and I missed commenting on this. You talk about your daughter and the 'identikit' of perceived beauty and on that I'm absolutely in agreement with you. I've already said that the pressures on girls/young women to conform are relentless because of the need to belong and requirement to conform to achieve this. My daughter is not in this age group yet but she will be and I suppose like every other parent I will be doing my level best to keep her grounded. The very best way that I know how to do this is to keep telling her that she's absolutely fine as she is - and that she doesn't need to be a 'follower' to fit it. I want her to be able to think for herself. Ask questions, do research - but think for herself.

I personally do not respond well to being told what to do - and particularly in relation to my own body. I do not see that it can be any other way. Does anybody actually welcome this? If the porn industry is such a big part of the problem then what is being done to attack that? To address that issue? It seems that posting on fora about hair removal is a softer option; telling other women that they are wrong for their choices.

I do apologise to you for suggesting that you were telling other women what they should and shouldn't be doing; that was other posters, not you. I'm sorry.

Who is telling you what to do, Lying? Disagreeing with some of what you say is not telling you what to do.
It's great we are in complete agreement that young girls are being put under pressure by society and it is our job as adult women to tell them to do what suits them .

Society, and social norms, whatever they happen to be at that point in time, have a huge influence on what people do / find acceptable / unacceptable.

But that covers pretty much every minutia of visible life, doesn't it? Shaving (both genders), hairstyles (both genders), clothing (both genders), career choices (both genders), and so on. Anyone risks social disapproval if they step outside of those norms.

I think what some PP are getting at is that to be so disapproving of shaving one's pubes because of social pressures (as some on this thread have been) but be completely accepting of shaving one's legs, which is also down to social pressures, smacks of hypocrisy.

If someone shaves any part of their body because it is currently the trend to do so, is it really any worse than conforming to any other trend that our society currently considers the norm? I have to agree with PPs that there is a lot of judgement and pressure being posted from the "no shave" side of this debate.

I don't shave /wax my pubes. I shave my armpits and legs. Suddenly that makes me a hypocrite? Nice.

More people are shaving down there, and porn does have an influence Porn is more readily available than ever - and younger and younger kids are being exposed to it. They are forming their opinions on what is normal and acceptable / unacceptable by this.

There is an article about youngsters and sex, in women's health magazine, and it found that a lot of young men / boys (in the UK) ARE being influenced by porn. They think anal is normal, and young women are being pressured into it.

www.womenshealthmag.com/sex-and-love/anal-sex

I've nothing against either, I've shaved and I've not shaved, and have had a lot of fun sexually with DP. Grown-ups can do what they want, but I do think it worrying that very young people just venturing into sex for the first time face this kind of pressure. It is real. Anal carries a lot more risk of STI's - that's just a fact. I was in my 20s before I tried it - I don't think 16 year olds having anal is anything to celebrate.

Who is disapproving of whom? Not me saying shaving /waxing is cleaner (implicitly not shaving/waxing is dirty) or "sex is better for the shaven/waxed of pube" (implicitly not shaving/waxing = can't have great sex).

I prefer it because IMO sex feels better with no hair down there - more sensitive. But my bf is 18 years older than me and he finds the idea of a bald fanjo quite repelling, so we have compromised and I now have a Brazilian. I’d rather just whip it all off personally.

shhhfastasleep, there ARE women on this thread doing exactly that and to say otherwise is disingenuous. Women who remove their hair have been accused of being with partners who obviously 'like young girls'. That is disgraceful.

Anyway, going back to the point of pubic hair being dirty or otherwise. I will be telling my daughter that it makes no difference to her cleanliness whether she keeps her pubic hair or not. You (general, not pointedly at you) can be dirty with or without pubic hair. There really cannot be any comeback from that if that is the message that our children are given, can there? I'm genuinely not seeing a loophole there so if there is one, please tell me.

On everything else in your last post, we are in complete agreement.

I'm just gonna state here for the record since there's a sweeping generalisation: porn has fuck all to do with my bald vagina.

I hate hair and have none at all downstairs

As a health professional, when a woman or her partner states that bring bald is preferable for the man's desire, we find that very disturbing. Slight perversion. I'm sure oral sex is better bald but not everyone enjoys it believe it or not! Plus waxing or razor shaving prior to having surgery increases risk of infection as the skin flora removed which is your skin's protection against invasion. Leave it to the skin prep nurse.