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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to be annoyed that church is so boring and missing an opportunity to teach something inspiring

418 replies

somethingmustchange · 08/01/2018 08:31

We rarely go except on visits to MIL. Each time the service is read from exactly the same booklet, the sermon teaches nothing and is just boring reciting of the bible, the hymns are dire and sung terribly by everyone including choir. I always leave feeling depressed and cross that the vicar doesn't try to inspire a new generation or give feelings of hope, happiness, community etc. Then the church goers (all 70 plus apart from maybe 2) have coffee and judge other people that are their supposed friends. How are churches supposed to have a future if they carry on like this?

OP posts:
hollowtree · 09/01/2018 01:15

patriarchy the same as I'm not telling you that "you are just lost but God will find you" I don't need you to tell me I'm only a step away from growing up and losing my imaginary friend. We're both grown ups, believe whatever you like.

I too read the Bible and thought, nope, I can't pray to that God I'm afraid. I studied science and thought, yep, that makes sense. But there has always been an overwhelming spiritual presence in my life I can't ignore.

It's MY God. I pray, I give thanks, I live a life as my best self with my Gods help and guidance. I don't worship him according to an ancient mistraslated text. I use my moral judgement to make the best decisions I can and I believe He would have lived this way.

Maybe He doesn't have the power and control people think. Maybe, like a real parent, He made all this happen and is just desperately hoping we turn out alright and don't hate Him too much in the end.

For me, it is like a relationship. The respect is mutual. He understands I am not prefect and He accepts my flaws. He forgives my mistakes. He just hopes for my love and understanding.

That is all, it won't change. I am who I am, I feel what I feel. But I do not think at all that you should be the same as me.

Nitrobetty1 · 09/01/2018 01:25

Don’t go. Churches are awful. Hopefully more will die out with time.

user1492877024 · 09/01/2018 02:08

This has made me want to get my Monty Python box set out. Life of Brian, The Holy Grail anyone? Who wants to go to a stoning then, Lol?

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 07:24

Isn't it amazing yesterday a thread saying something critical about Islam lasted about two seconds yet this one is still up.

LoniceraJaponica · 09/01/2018 07:32

Exactly Elton. I notice that no-one replied to my question asking whether the crtical posters would target Muslims, Jews and Buddhists in the same way.

Oh, wait a minute. It's OK to take a pop at Christians. Why?

speakout · 09/01/2018 07:42

I view all Abrahamic faith in the same poor light.

Critics tend to focus on christianity here however as this is a nominally christian country, so we have all been subject to christian influence more than other faiths.

It's not surprising then that faith critics should focus more on christianity. This is a UK site after all.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 07:42

I'm actually really glad that I belong to a religion which can be questioned, criticised and even lampooned. But I also believe in equality and can't understand why MN removes posts about one religion so quickly but allows criticism of another? Perhaps they will answer?

Particularly when it's well documented that the most persecute religion in the world today is Christianity.

My son goes to a school which is 30% refugee and they are mainly Christians fleeing awful violence and persecution in the ME and Africa.

It makes me very sad they faith such hatred in the UK too.

midnightmooch · 09/01/2018 07:45

Eighteen years of being forced to attend church - I can confirm that it was boring as hell and thankfully at 18 I was able to say no more! It's apparently still boring as hell.....I've never been tempted to return to its torture.
I won't take a pop at other religions in the same way because I wasn't forced to endure them on a daily basis.

pandapop17 · 09/01/2018 07:45

Yes I think all faiths are oppressive, controlling and not good for women.

maddiemookins16mum · 09/01/2018 07:49

I agree, our church and our faith are really important to our family and is a big part of our lives. There's a comment above saying churches are awful places etc, I can just imagine the outrage had the word church been replaced with Mosque or Synagogue.

pandapop17 · 09/01/2018 07:51

So the way to defend your faith is to encourage criticisms of other faiths!

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 07:58

Are you serious? You think Christians should lead the drive for other faiths to be criticised? You mean the faith which is being murdered, kidnapped, raped and imprisoned all the round the world for simply not submitting to other faiths, let alone criticising them, should stick it's head above the parapet again?

All I'm saying is that it is a great shame MN don't treat all religions equally on MN.

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/01/2018 08:04

LoniceraJaponica

I regularly criticise Islam. Not so much Judaisim but only because I don't encounter it as often. As another poster has said further up the thread, Christianity is criticised the most in this country because it is the dominant religion.

The responses from some of the religious on here have been quite telling and pretty typical. Any criticism of their religion has been met with one of two responses:

  1. How rude of you to question my religion! Its not acceptable.
  1. Or to continually redefine the boundaries of what they believe in (make it narrower and narrower in order to escape criticism) until eventually they get to a kind of woolly, theistic, spiritual non-definable kind of belief that doesn't rely on anything in the real world and therefore by definition is unfalsifiable.

When that fails and they run out of answers we end up at the point we reached last night, where the default setting is "why do you care so much anyway, after all what I believe doesn't affect you".

The reason atheists are often so vocal is because what the religious believe often does affect us. Religion permeates every element of our lives. Schools are allowed to select or reject pupils based on the religion of their parents, in this country, in this day and age! Homosexuals are still treated differently by many religious organisations. A poster only a few pages ago stated quite openly that all practising homosexuals are going to hell. Bishops are given automatic places in the House of Lords. Vicars are given automatic, unquestioned access to the armed forces, churches are exempted from taxes. The list goes on.

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/01/2018 08:08

*Deistic, not Theistic

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 08:19

Patriachy and Panda, whether or not you criticise Islam or any other religion is besides the issue. I'm glad to hear that you you treat religions equally critically. I'm also not saying Christianity should be above criticism.

My issue is that MN clearly do not treat all religions equally and are happy to keep up threads criticising Christianity but pull those criticising other religions almost immediately.

midnightmooch · 09/01/2018 08:39

Criticism of Islam has led to some violent acts around the world - could that be why MN gets rid of those threads?

pandapop17 · 09/01/2018 09:03

Christianity is also violent. Currently Christian leaders in Uganda support laws that condem homosexuality.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 09:05

midnight, all the more reason to treat religions equally I would say. Because if that violence leads to a special status where criticism of Islam is verboten but criticism of other religions is fine, then you're basically telling the terrorists they were successful because you're doing what they want therefore encouraging more terrorism.

I'm not against criticism of either religion. And if MN want to shut down threads that's up to them. But if they're going to do that they should treat all belief systems (including atheism in the same way). It's not fair or equal that they allow pretty horrible threads about Christianity to stay up but shut down the Islam ones within seconds.

jenniferjane21 · 09/01/2018 09:06

Midnight - are you saying that violence is the best way to stop people cruising or discussing a particular religion? That Christians should be violent too, to get their faith treated equally? Oh dear

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 09:08

Not violence though. They got rid of that law in 2013.

It's still punishable by death in many Muslim countries. And the Muslim against Christian violence numbers are huge. It's effectively an apartheid system.

Anyway, I wasn't arguing about which religion is best or engaging in whataboutery. I was just pointing out MNs double standards on this issue.

BartholinsSister · 09/01/2018 09:22

Come on over to the Church Of Satan, way better music, and our boss doesn't drown millions of puppies in great floods.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 09:26

Lol, Bartholin. But a good point. If one religion is immune from criticism then every one should be, including the Church of Satan. They should all be treated the same.

petbear · 09/01/2018 10:29

Come on over to the Church Of Satan, way better music, and our boss doesn't drown millions of puppies in great floods.

I don't remember THIS from the bible!! Shock

petbear · 09/01/2018 10:29

Come on over to the Church Of Satan, way better music, and our boss doesn't drown millions of puppies in great floods.

I don't remember THIS from the bible!! Shock

petbear · 09/01/2018 10:29

@hollowtree

patriarchy the same as I'm not telling you that "you are just lost but God will find you" I don't need you to tell me I'm only a step away from growing up and losing my imaginary friend. We're both grown ups, believe whatever you like.

I too read the Bible and thought, nope, I can't pray to that God I'm afraid. I studied science and thought, yep, that makes sense. But there has always been an overwhelming spiritual presence in my life I can't ignore.

It's MY God. I pray, I give thanks, I live a life as my best self with my Gods help and guidance. I don't worship him according to an ancient mistranslated text. I use my moral judgement to make the best decisions I can and I believe He would have lived this way.

Maybe He doesn't have the power and control people think. Maybe, like a real parent, He made all this happen and is just desperately hoping we turn out alright and don't hate Him too much in the end.

For me, it is like a relationship. The respect is mutual. He understands I am not prefect and He accepts my flaws. He forgives my mistakes. He just hopes for my love and understanding.

HollowTree, that post that you put at 01.15am is absolutely brilliant. You said everything I wanted to say, but put it so much better.

@PartiarchyPersonifield is incredibly patronising and rude. I am not even going to respond to any of their rude posts. Laughable that they have the temerity to act all hurt and slighted when several posters turned their rudeness around on them though.

I used to go to Church quite often in the past (maybe 2 or 3 times a month,) but sometimes I would only go once a month. I have to admit that I also found it quite boring most of the time, and I did get tired of being nagged and badgered to join in with Church activities a lot more, and that is why I started going less and less and less........

As someone said earlier upthread, I felt they were desperately trying to get me roped into anything and everything they could, to get me sucked right in and it became tiresome. I have a family, I have a job, and I have hobbies, and I couldn't give the time they wanted and expected, to all these groups and activities. (Nor did I want to if I am being honest. I was happy to just go to Church a couple of times a month, and that was enough for me........)

Someone actually made an underhand comment once about 'if people don't volunteer for stuff, the Church will not be able to function,' and another woman said 'maybe if people don't bother, they shouldn't get to come.' Hmm

After that, I didn't go for about 3 months, and had a couple of the 'Church Elders' (aka a couple of women who go to every single service and prayer morning at the Church, and are involved in everything,) knocking on my door, and ringing me, wanting to know if I was OK, and asking if I had 'lost my faith.'

I have a faith and a spiritual presence in my life and in my soul that I can't ignore (as hollowtee so beautifully put it,) but I genuinely struggle with going to Church, for a number of reasons, many of them listed in this thread.

I believe in Jesus, and I believe in God, and I pray on my own, and still go to Church occasionally, but I struggle a bit, because it's boring, and also I am not keen on most of the people who go.

There are 4 or 5 of the people who are OK, but most of them are either very bigoted and judgemental; OR they are bossy, controlling, and manipulative, OR they are just plain odd. Upshot is, there aren't any people there that I want to socialise with. I have a group of friends outside the Church, and at work, and in my cul de sac, and don't class anyone at the Church as friends.