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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to be annoyed that church is so boring and missing an opportunity to teach something inspiring

418 replies

somethingmustchange · 08/01/2018 08:31

We rarely go except on visits to MIL. Each time the service is read from exactly the same booklet, the sermon teaches nothing and is just boring reciting of the bible, the hymns are dire and sung terribly by everyone including choir. I always leave feeling depressed and cross that the vicar doesn't try to inspire a new generation or give feelings of hope, happiness, community etc. Then the church goers (all 70 plus apart from maybe 2) have coffee and judge other people that are their supposed friends. How are churches supposed to have a future if they carry on like this?

OP posts:
speakout · 08/01/2018 19:11

She did make some good points however- and I for one agreed.

PatriarchyPersonified · 08/01/2018 19:13

Remainoptimistic

It's not unconditional love and acceptance though is it? I can either accept Jesus on his terms and his terms only or I can burn forever in Hell. That's neither unconditional or accepting.

kohl · 08/01/2018 19:15

I'm Christian and believe any mutually loving relationship - gay or straight - is a wonderful, joyful, holy thing.
I don't believe in hell.
I do think that people have done terrible things to others in the name of religion, in much the same way that they've done terrible things in the name of political systems. But the way that the Church has been complicit with this, is and should be a source of shame.
Jesus was silent on sexuality and pretty quiet about the afterlife but had a lot to say about the way we treat the poor, the excluded, the sick, and women.

CardinalSin · 08/01/2018 19:17

Mahatma Gandhi — 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

frenchForCoat · 08/01/2018 19:17

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Madhairday · 08/01/2018 19:37

So true, kohl. Often Jesus' emphasis on supporting the most vulnerable is ignored in favour of concentrating on the idea of religion as oppressive (which it has been and often is, sadly.)

OP - you can't generalise from one experience, but to be fair I've been around church a long old time and come across a fair few like you describe, with a few ruling the roost and judging others. Much more though I've experienced warm, friendly, inclusive churches which vary in styles of worship but that's great because we need to have variety. My church is a large and thriving church of all ages, around 400 all in, with a huge emphasis on social action and supporting the needy and lonely and those in debt and addicts etc etc. Of course there are problems, that's because it's a load of people coming together, and that tends to create problems at times with the best will in the world. Contrary to an earlier poster's assertion though I find it to be all about community and hope, and a joyful and life giving place to be. In general. The vicar's fabulous and hot (being my Oh) Grin

Patriarchy, I believe in the central tenets of Christianity as put forth in the creeds. Hell is not one of those, as the idea of eternal torment as hell is a mediaeval construct and not a biblical idea.

hollowtree · 08/01/2018 19:37

patriarchy, allegorical yes. I do not believe any of the Bible to be literal truth. However, I do believe in a God.

There are some instances where I attend church. This is for two reasons: when my DH and I got married, I wanted to make my vows in the presence of God. The Christian church is the closest in terms of a moral platform to my beliefs. Note that I say the closest, not necessarily meaning very close.

Our church is also a large part of our community, so I attend once at Christmas (midnight mass) to exchange 'The Peace' with all of my friends and neighbours and remember with them that Christmas is a time of love and kindness (even for those who do not believe it represents the birth story of Christ).

Does that make sense? I hope it does. I would like to add I am not a hypocrite and no not take communion during these services, as those who do believe the bread and wine to be a representation of Christ's body and blood.

PatriarchyPersonified · 08/01/2018 19:54

Hollowtree

If you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, then you are not a Christian. You sound like a very nice person, but a Christian you are not.

Why not just take all the good bits of what Jesus is supposed to have said and be a good person, without recourse to the supernatural?

Basically just cut out the middleman?

hollowtree · 08/01/2018 20:00

I've never ever ever said I am a Christian.

hollowtree · 08/01/2018 20:02

I got married in a Christian church because it was the easiest way to make my vows before God. My God.

I've tried really hard to explain it to give you an insight into the relationship some people have with a God but not for it to be picked to bits.

I believe in God. I am not religious. I have cut out the middle man. My relationship with God involves only the two of us, not a whole organised religion and it's followers.

PatriarchyPersonified · 08/01/2018 20:04

Hollowtree

How does your God manifest himself to you? How do you know he is there?

PatriarchyPersonified · 08/01/2018 20:12

Hollowtree

Please don't think I'm trolling you, the reason why I'm asking you all these questions is because I used to be you. I was baptised as an adult because I was drawn to the good message that I thought I saw in religion and in particular in Christianity. It was only when I looked deeper that I realised that I didn't agree with anything that the major religions preached in their entirety. I used to play the whole " I have a personal relationship with god" piece for a while as well, until I finally realised, i didn't need it to be the person I wanted to be. Once I got past that, I saw all religion for what it really is.

You are closer to that stage than you think you are. Believe me.

Julie8008 · 08/01/2018 20:17

Each time the service is read from exactly the same booklet, the sermon teaches nothing and is just boring reciting of the bible, the hymns are dire and sung terribly by everyone including choir

Of course its boring, its just reading out the same book for 2000 years. If you want to liven things up a bit you will need to invent something new to say. Change things up. Maybe same sex marriage would liven things up a bit?

Vitalogy · 08/01/2018 20:18

How does your God manifest himself to you? How do you know he is there? For me it was when I realised I am part of it. We're all part of the source.

FundayMorning · 08/01/2018 20:46

Patriarchy I don't understand why you are so invested in undoing another person's faith. Why are you probing so hard? Why does it matter to you why other posters believe what they do? I don't think you're being very respectful. Nobody is attacking you so why are you so hell-bent on ripping their beliefs to shreds? For kicks? Or to reinforce and validate your own position?

pandapop17 · 08/01/2018 20:47

Don't be fooled into thinking modern lively churches are loving. Many of the evangelical churches are theologically conservative which means they think homosexuality is a sin. They also think men are superior to women. I was fooled for years but have finally escaped!

speakout · 08/01/2018 20:53

FundayMorning but we are all influenced by the church, whether we believe or not- that's the problem.

The actual fabric of society including the patriarchal and misogynistic structures we are all subject to are a result of the christian church in this country.
Still our children are indoctrinated at school and non elected church members make laws.

If religion were wholly personal I would not have an issue, but it isn't. It's political and affects every one of us.
So even though I am an atheist religion is my business too.

LoniceraJaponica · 08/01/2018 21:04

"Patriarchy I don't understand why you are so invested in undoing another person's faith. Why are you probing so hard? Why does it matter to you why other posters believe what they do? I don't think you're being very respectful. Nobody is attacking you so why are you so hell-bent on ripping their beliefs to shreds? For kicks? Or to reinforce and validate your own position?"

I agree. Would you challenge someone of a different faith in the same way? A Muslim, a Jew, a Buddhist?

Vitalogy · 08/01/2018 21:04

I think people get frustrated when religion can't answer their valid questions.

franktheskank · 08/01/2018 21:14

I can't believe people still go to church Grin

LoniceraJaponica · 08/01/2018 21:22

Because they want to?
With one exception on here.

FundayMorning · 08/01/2018 21:33

Still our children are indoctrinated at school and non elected church members make laws.

  1. You don't need to send your children to a faith school. No reason for them to be indoctrinated.
  1. In our system of a second chamber, we have hundreds of unelected people passing laws. There are 26 bishops out of almost 800 members. Christianity is not holding sway over politics at all.
speakout · 08/01/2018 21:40

Funday- we don't have "non faith" state schools in this country.

The best we have is non denominational.
Schools are required by law to " lead active worship".
It is up to teaching staff to interpret as they see fit,

In my kids school that meant weekly visits from clergy, praying in class, religious assemblies, including all the "Jesus is my Superhero" songs.

This is a "non faith" school.

speakout · 08/01/2018 21:41

Your ignorance simply highlights your christian privilege.

RemainOptimistic · 08/01/2018 23:02

Hell to me is the psychological state I lived in full time up to age 25 or so. Hell is pain and suffering without meaning and without relief. I don't "believe" in hell. I think hell is an objective fact and it's where most people live, most of the time. It's nothing to do with "do what God says or he will punish you". Humans don't need anyone to punish them - handily we have internal critics in our heads and social and racial divides from which to create real life enemies of each other.

Pain and suffering is pretty unpleasant so why on earth would I want to bear it all alone if I don't have to? Life is shit enough as it is.

I think the important thing about a human life is what happens to it when it is alive. I don't need the threat of some imaginary afterlife hell to convince me to change my attitude and behaviour. I've seen the results in my own life.

Jesus said come to me all who are burned out on religion. That's the God I believe in.