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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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to be annoyed that church is so boring and missing an opportunity to teach something inspiring

418 replies

somethingmustchange · 08/01/2018 08:31

We rarely go except on visits to MIL. Each time the service is read from exactly the same booklet, the sermon teaches nothing and is just boring reciting of the bible, the hymns are dire and sung terribly by everyone including choir. I always leave feeling depressed and cross that the vicar doesn't try to inspire a new generation or give feelings of hope, happiness, community etc. Then the church goers (all 70 plus apart from maybe 2) have coffee and judge other people that are their supposed friends. How are churches supposed to have a future if they carry on like this?

OP posts:
PatriarchyPersonified · 09/01/2018 18:42

Ha! That's something we can agree on.

LoniceraJaponica · 09/01/2018 18:44

So, why is it OK to take a pop at Christianity and not any other religions (Islam apart)?

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 18:52

The privilege to be the most persecuted religious group in the world?

speakout · 09/01/2018 18:54

Because this is a traditionally christian country.

Sunnism doesn't have much influence on me.

LoniceraJaponica · 09/01/2018 19:00

speakout would you be so vociferous against Islam if you lived in Iran?

VileyRose · 09/01/2018 19:01

Sorry I only really have books here so can't find links. I'm certinaly no atheist. Just not in to Abrahamic religions.

Good books about morality and values and happy life before 'patriarchal religion'

When God was a woman
God's and goddesses of the world
Holy blood, holy grail.

speakout · 09/01/2018 19:08

LoniceraJaponica I am not sure what your point is.

If you are demonstrating how controlling and misogynistic religion is then I agree.

Julie8008 · 09/01/2018 19:25

There are 2.2 billion Christians, 1.3 million Buddhists, 3 million people of other religions compared to 1.1 billion atheists
There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

How where those statistics compiled and by who? What do they actually mean? Someone born in a Muslim country is a Muslim, you cannot change your religion, you are a Muslim forever even if you dont believe in a god, on pain of death. What do that do to the stats?
Similarly in America, religion is so pervasive that publicly being an atheist is worse than being a paedophile, so even if you dont believe in a god you are pressured/bullied into professing a religion (as happens in N.Ireland).

How do you define religion, if you dont believe in the divine nature of Jesus are you actually a Christian? In the UK at the last census 59% of people ticked 'Christianity'. Unfortunately the question was biased and presupposed you had a religion.

In a survey just after the census only 32% of those who ticked 'Christian', believed in the resurrection of Jesus. So only 18% of the UK are actually Christian and we are therefore a majority Atheist country.

Even less (28%) of those who ticked Christian actually believed in the teachings of Christianity, so only 16% of the country.

Given the number of people going to Church in England is less than 2% of the entire population you can conclude that whilst the UK is technically a Christian country, hardly anyone in it actually believes in a divine Christ or lives a 'Christian' lifestyle.

speakout · 09/01/2018 19:36

Julie8008 I agree.

I remember as a child my parents filling in a census form.

They would tick " Christian" and I was always puzzled.

They never went to church, we had no bible in the house, never prayed, never even discussed religion.
It was a " nominal" type of christianity, the unthinking sit on the fence don't really care but guess I am type of christianity.

Which I suspect many still are in the UK and thoughout the world.

petbear · 09/01/2018 19:47

OP - try a different church - ours is nothing like that. Our church has 3 services a day all with about 400 people.

Family service, lively with a band, dancing, sometimes people acting, video clips, a talk from the vicar and worship songs, children's groups from babies to teens with crafts and games for little ones and breakfast and discussions for the teens.

Coffee/tea afterwards. 11am service, traditional wording reading from service sheets, old fashioned hymns with church organ, communion every week. Tends to be popular with the elderly. Tea/coffee and cake after.

Evening service, very modern and lively, snacks after, tends to be full of youngsters and young adults, students from local uni.

We also do weekends away, quiet worship, women's groups, men's groups, older peoples groups, mother and baby groups, toddlers groups, Messy church, small groups in peoples houses, support groups, alpha groups, parenting courses, marriage courses.

Service wise (together with other churches) we run the local food bank, night shelter, lonely peoples lunches, Street pastors, counselling, debt counselling, tradecraft markets, a work scheme for adults with learning difficulties, support an orphanage overseas and of course anyone that needs individual support. Probably a few more but that's off the top of my head.

Old fashioned churches like your MIL's are loved by many (often elderly) but there are lots of different more modern churches too.

@Strawberrybubblebath

Where is this Church?

Because I have never ever ever been to, or known of a Church like this. A congregation of 400 at a time? 3 services a day, (the vicar must be run off his feet!) acting, dancing, live bands playing, mother and baby groups, food bank, night shelter, lonely peoples lunches, street pastors, counselling, debt counselling, tradecraft markets, a work scheme for adults with learning difficulties, mens groups, womens groups, parenting course, marriage courses, (? Confused ) evening services, uni students flocking in.....Where on earth IS this amazing Church? Confused

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 20:05

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
How where those statistics compiled and by who

Well those ones were wrong anyway, as I explained underneath, as I wrote Buddhist instead of Muslims and million instead of billion.

But it comes from 'adherents'. They're an independent non affiliated group.

www.adherents.com

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 20:13

Info on their methods on link below. It can't be precise but it's one of the most reliable estimates.

And nobody can look into people's souls and see what they truly believe. But religious attendance, membership and self determination are a better indicator than 'well I don't know any religious people therefore they exist'. Even with a huge margin of error it's abundantly clear that the religious far, far outnumber the non-religious in the world.

Perhaps some atheists tend to underestimate the number of religious people around them because far from 'ramming it down their throats' they're actually quite private about what they believe?

www.adherents.com/adh_faq.html#sources

Mary1935 · 09/01/2018 20:18

Yes Pettbear I'm curious too where this church is. I'm assuming it must be in a city but I may be wrong. I live in London so there a many churches that offers some of these things but not all of them with 3 services a day - is this just Sunday?
I was brought up going to a catholic school and church in the 70s - it was the most boring service I'd have ever endured and it was very fear based. It did not teach you that God loves you - it taught you that you'd go to Hell!!! Has it changed - I'm not sure as I've not ventured back into a Catholic Church except for weddings and funerals. I didn't send my son to a catholic school either due to my very negative experiences.
I've since been to Baptist and evangelical - I prefer evangelical - more lively and friendly congregation in my experience.
Something must change - yours sounds dire - it will die as the congregation ages and dies - I'd look further a field -
Some churches can also be too big - it' can be hard to get to know others too.

In London I think church is growing - different faiths are using schools on a Sunday to worship, some churches meet in the local cinema on a Sunday, some rent the local martial arts centre and there's a Spanish church that uses the local baptist church on a Saturday. People are looking for "something" to give there life a meaning and I still hope.
I wouldn't say that I'm a Christian - I find it hard to "believe" - each to there own though.

hollowtree · 09/01/2018 20:20

please keep your horrible, rancid, bigoted, offensive opinions to yourself, because they are vile so, this for a start.

Followed by: posters on here have gone to great lengths to state that the really bad stuff in the Bible is not to be taken literally, it's just allegory nope! No one ever said that about the 'bad stuff'. I recommended to the OP a good starting place for churches to become more relatable would be teaching the stories of the loaves and fishes and water into wine AS an allegory.

You're not making any valid points anymore. You're just arguing to annoy people so congrats! It's working! You are the non-religious equivalent to a street preacher annoying the living shit out of people passing by. Using qustions to draw them in then tearing their answers up because you can't accept a different opinion.

Shame you're not religious, you'd be a great Jehovas Witness.

Vitalogy · 09/01/2018 20:21

Probably in the US.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 09/01/2018 20:27

Well I found this church just to give you an example. But many do something similar:

www.buckinghamparishchurch.org.uk/Publisher/File.aspx?ID=187971

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/01/2018 20:39

Hollowtree

Of the points I've made, which aren't valid?

PatriarchyPersonified · 09/01/2018 20:40

Also, it's not all about you.

coconuttella · 09/01/2018 21:22

petbear

Most reasonable sized towns will have at least one church this size.... and cities more so. For instance, Holy Trinity Brompton apparently has 4,500 on an average Sunday, albeit spread across lots and Services and sites in the vicinity to accomodate.

coconuttella · 09/01/2018 21:23
  • even in my town of 15,000, there are 2 churches with congregations of 200-300.
speakout · 09/01/2018 21:35

600 people attending church in a town of 15000 is 4% of the population.

A small minority.

Julie8008 · 09/01/2018 21:48

Eltonjohnssyrup
www.adherents.com just collates self published census data, it conducts no research itself. And like I posted about the UK, which asked a bias question about religion. 59% ticked 'christian' but only 16% actually believe in the teachings of christ and less than 2% go to church.

So census data bears very little resemblance to what people actually believe. Imagine what bias/pressure there is in muslim/fundamentalist,religious countries.

Julie8008 · 09/01/2018 21:53

600 people attending church in a town of 15000 is 4% of the population

That's over double the national average. Must be a very religious town with little religious diversity.

coconuttella · 09/01/2018 21:55

600 people attending church in a town of 15000 is 4% of the population.

I meant that of the churches in the town, 2 have congregations about that size.... there are around 6 more with smaller congregations though.... but yes, even including those, clearly only a small minority regularly attend a church. This isn’t news. However, apart from seeking to belittle and marginalise those posting on this thread who do, I’m not sure why you feel the need to emphasise this.

VileyRose · 09/01/2018 21:56

Yes I know people that tick 'Christian' because they 're christened. They don't actually believe.