Have I been mean to this child?

[SureJan]

My baby DS is 6mo. My cousin came round to visit with her 4yo DD.
Baby has some toys, obviously nothing really for a 4yo to play with but I didn't mind at all her playing with the baby toys.
4yo started getting a little bit naughty (probably bored) & was snatching toys off the baby. Cousin, her mum, didn't say anything to her about it. Eventually I gently told her not to snatch, he's only a baby etc. Cousin not phased, didn't say a word to her. She didn't stop doing it so I started wrapping up the play date, picked up baby & said he was due a bottle, that sort of thing, to signal it was time they went home.
4yo started making a fuss when cousin said it was time to go & she was flustered. 4yo had baby's rattle in her hand & looked like she wasn't going to put it back. I nicely asked are you going to put the rattle back? They both ignored me. Cousin started saying bye, thanks for having us, 4yo still had hold of rattle. I said (nicely again) I'll take that rattle off you now, & she started kicking off really bad, screaming, crying etc. Cousin said nothing to me, just looked at her DD & looked blankly at me. I tried to tell 4yo it was baby's & baby needs it so it has to stay here - more screaming & crying, still no input from cousin. Then cousin says to 4yo, maybe SureJan will let you borrow it until we come again? I said sorry, no. Cousin rolled her eyes at me & said 'really?' in a very pissed off tone, & I stuck to my guns & said yes really, it's not hers to take!
Cousin cajoled & begged 4yo for a good minute or 2 to hand it over, with her screaming full pelt in her face, & eventually cousin snatched it off her, threw it onto the floor & dragged her out of the house saying 'thanks for fucking nothing' to me!
WIBU? Part of me feels bad because it was just a rattle & baby probably wouldn't have missed it, maybe I was being a bit mean? I'm sure cousin thinks I was just being awkward & making her suffer through an embarrassing tantrum that I could have easily stopped by letting her take the bloody thing.
But part of me thinks no, it's not my fault she won't discipline her DD & why should I just give her stuff to take home so that she gets an easier time? It was a rattle & she's 4yo so not age appropriate for her, I feel she was just pushing boundaries & didn't really want it.
I know it isn't my place to tell cousin how to discipline but I do feel she should have stepped in way before the rattle incident by telling her DD to stop snatching, play nicely, be gentle with baby etc. It annoyed me that she didn't!
Am I mean/unreasonable? I have no doubt that there will come a time when baby is older & tantrumming in similar fashion & I'll be able to empathise more, but I don't think in that situation I'd let him take the toy to keep him quiet.

Mmm. I can imagine how this “play date????” Was going. The 4year old had probably been used to being centre of attention, was actually bored as you both either cooed over the baby (or at least it seemed that way to the 4year old). She tried to get attention by taking the baby’s stuff. Why did no one step in sooner, provide something for 4year old to do rather than play with baby toys. Sounds like she had a miserable time. I think both adults were being unreasonable here.

YANBU child (and parent apparently) need to learn boundaries...sure your child wouldnt have noticed now but what about in 2 years time when cousin wants to walk out with their special toy. What next taking the nursery teachers handbag home or just gonna take this toy from xxshop. Best to nip it in the bud. I don't see the point of kids "borrowing" toys, they will hardly understand they have to give it back...its not fair on either child. Kids can learn to share toys whilst they are playing together and obviously the childs parent needs to regulate their behaviour however old they are...And to those of you who say "oh but princess is only 6", "we dont use the word no, we dont want to use negatives around our precious barnaby" please aware of what message you are sending. Or we'll have you to thank for future generations of self-entitled self-obsessed overly-sensitive twats. It's a shame you had to step in OP but you did the right thing its a shame the mum had no interest in discipling her (and had the audacity to throw a tantrum!) If she has anything else nasty to say just remind her she's made a rod for her own back and your house your rules. Hopefully you will be in a position to set some boundaries in your home when lil cousin is at yours x

I have a 4 year old and would have stepped in at the snatching, never mind trying to take a toy home. YANBU

I suspect cousin knows her daughter well enough to know a full blown tantrum was about to occur and was trying to avoid it. Rightly or wrongly. You say she was flustered when the kid started kicking off.she was probably trying to avoid the meltdown and did t think you'd have an issue with thr rattle.

To be honest if it wasn't an important toy I'd have let her have it. Of course she should have braved the tantrum and insisted she handed it back, but as it was family and she thought it wasn't a critical toy she probably tried to body swerve it.

I wonder what your cousin will do when your kids going through a tantrum stage and tries the same thing with something that belongs to her daughter. I think you'll have to brave the tantrum. Knackering as it is.

You were being very unreasonable for being so protective over a rattle your own child wouldn’t even miss

What?!

That surely just gives the child the impression they can take things from other people's houses whenever? What if she does this at another 4 year olds house.

I agree it is parenting. Cousin sounds useless and let's her dd do what she likes when she likes so she cannot cope when finally told no.

I had a frightful experience with my nephew just before Christmas. He is also 4. I have some childhood toys that I let him play with. I had 2 that were the same dont even remember why I have 2 the same. He flatly told me he was taking one home to keep as I had 2. Like hell. I may have 2 but they were treasured childhood toys and he is not having them.

I just distracted him later with his Christmas presents and hid away my childhood toys and he forgot about it.

Later I took him to a children's Christmas theatre show in the afternoon. Bought him another toy on sale before the show which I didn't mind as a souvenir extra present. Then more toys are produced for purchase after the performance and he demands another. Not this time. It kicked off a massive tantrum where he kicked screamed and demanded more and more stuff. Everything he saw after that he wanted. He kept screaming for a good hour afterwards. It was hard not to notice he was the only child behaving this way. It was a small theatre and no one else was screaming for toys even younger children.

He had been spoilt rotten with presents from family he wasn't seeing on Xmas day, taken out, bought more toys and was screaming for more toys and sweets.

He behaved like the 4 year old in the op the whole rest of the day too.

My sister admitted she just lets him.do what he wants after a half hearted attempt at no.

So he now knows no is just something he needs to go nuclear in response to in order to get what he wants.

Nice.

Yanbu at all op.

Oh god I hate when kids ask to take toys home after a play date. My kids really look after their things and whenever we've had things back from others they are wrecked or lost or sworn they gave them back last week! The only exception for me would be if one of my nieces wanted it as I could trust it would come back ok. Definitely not unreasonable imo

I guess 4yo was bored, yes. I did my best to entertain her with the limited stuff I had, but I'd expected her mum to bring some toys or something for her to play with. We certainly didn't sit & ignore her though.
Cousin wanted to come round to meet baby & thought her DD would enjoy the visit, but maybe should have gone home sooner when her DD was showing signs of being fed up.

Or how about mum take the girl home earlier wen its apparent she's getting bored. Her child her responsibility.

Oh god I hate when kids ask to take toys home after a play date. My kids really look after their things and whenever we've had things back from others they are wrecked or lost or sworn they gave them back last week! The only exception for me would be if one of my nieces wanted it as I could trust it would come back ok. Definitely not unreasonable imo

The owner of the toy in question is 6 months old. I'd have certainly bid farewell to the rattle and everyone involved.

If you gavenin this time, what would she have wanted to take home next time? Your iPad you let her play with? Your expensive makeup?? Etcetc
She mess to learn that she can’t have everything and that’s something her mum should be teaching her!

The owner of the toy in question is 6 months old. I'd have certainly bid farewell to the rattle and everyone involved.

Maybe but this is the only time this 4 yo has ever been told no and no MEANS no. She didnt get what she wanted by screaming and she can't take what she wants.

Did you mean give them the rattle and nevrr see them again? Not a bad idea.

It's terrible parenting but it's not the OP's problem and her intervention is hardly going to save this child from her mother's ineptitude.

The entire episode sounds like a clusterfuck and I'd have done anything to rid myself of it.

Personally not my 4yo, not my problem. I'd have let her take the rattle.

What do i care about disciplining someone else's kid?

What do I know about what's going on with them anyway?

Does my baby care about the rattle?

But do I care about relationship with cousin? Probably.

So goodbye rattle

YWDNBU

Your cousin needs to parent her child, it should never have got to that.

You needed to protect your child and his things. As you say what if it’s something far more precious or expensive next time.

At 4 she is old enough to know she can't just take what she likes, it's not her fault, it's her mums, you were right

What does the fact the child was 6mths make? If the toy was wrecked or broken by someone else the op would have had to have replaced it. Technically the child could go without but someone bought it for her to enjoy, not for a child who has probably been given things for Christmas. My children's baby things were passed down to each of them (3) which meant we saved a packet each time and I've been able to pass down to nieces too which is lovely. I don't get this 'she is 4' thing either. My dd is 14mths and snatches things from her sister all the time. She can't help not understanding yet but I still tell her no and remove the item from her, how else are they expected to learn. She already understands the word no so I don't think they are ever to young to try and start installing manners personally

YWNBU - also I'd never have thought of occupying toys/things for a child visitor when I had my first baby, I was fully occupied trying to work out how to look after my DC- if you had supplied pens, you may have had the house scribbled on if no is not a word cousin uses, view it as enlightening in case there is a next time

I am appalled how cousin threw the rattle on the floor and swore at you. Blaming you for her dds behaviour rather than dealing with her.

Wow. YANBU.

The rattle belongs to your child and nobody has the right to take anyone's things. Well done for sticking firm and saying that your cousin's DD couldn't take it.

Your cousin needs to start disciplining her child. Trying to get you to say her DD could take the rattle is such poor parenting. Teaching her daughter that she can take what she wants from whoever and wherever.

For those saying that you should have let her take the rattle as it was insignificant and would have prevented the tantrum: you do not teach a child that it is right to steal or take what is not their's.

I don't understand why anybody would say you are BU. Why should your DD lose her toy because your cousin can't be arsed to parent properly? What if this happens every time they can come round?

The cousin was definitely very rude and entitled about her DD's behaviour. My DDs have both wanted to take things home, I'd have been embarrassed and apologetic not rude about it.

CupOf don't get how saying that we all learn from experience is patronising? I genuinely didn't intend it to be.

Or was it the not worth falling out over bit of what I said? I've never had a cousin; I'd have loved to. Maybe falling out is ok and doesn't much matter? Don't know. But I tend to think if it's family (which is probably a different relationship from just a simple friendship), then it's easier all round to ask cousin if she's ok and explain why you weren't happy. Hopefully she's just knackered, having a bad day, who knows what? But I'd rather think the grown ups could try and see a way forwards that isn't just 'dropping' them, given the family link... and, yeah, I know the MN way is to go all NC, but it'd be a bit sad if it was over a single episode with a baby's rattle.

As for parenting other people's children, erm, nope, can't say I've done that, so kinda stuck to my own experience

YANBU.

The cousin needs to teach her child manners (setting a stellar example by snapping rudely at you in the child's hearing, btw!)-- and needs to be willing to be the bad guy who tells her child "no", from time to time. Sounds like she raising a brat. Not the child's fault, but no-one will want to deal with her, if this sort of thing continues.

Four is old enough to learn that she can't just take things that belong to others-- not to mention that it's not nice to snatch toys from others (baby, child, or adult).

AcademicOwl - I won't be holding a grudge with cousin over this. I don't like falling out with anyone but especially not family. Cousin & I aren't particularly close but she's still important to me, plus I don't want to cause any problems between my mum & my aunt.
Though I'm not sure if I should reach out & check she's ok, just because we don't really text/talk on a regular basis so it might seem weird to her, and I don't want her to think I'm fishing for an apology or making a big issue out of what happened/ramming home the fact that I think she handled it badly.

we don't really text/talk on a regular basis

Say nothing.

She threw a strip in your house and swore at you as you wouldn't let her entitled brat take a baby rattle just because.

I'd just leave it.