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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Have I been mean to this child?

435 replies

SureJan · 07/01/2018 19:52

My baby DS is 6mo. My cousin came round to visit with her 4yo DD.
Baby has some toys, obviously nothing really for a 4yo to play with but I didn't mind at all her playing with the baby toys.
4yo started getting a little bit naughty (probably bored) & was snatching toys off the baby. Cousin, her mum, didn't say anything to her about it. Eventually I gently told her not to snatch, he's only a baby etc. Cousin not phased, didn't say a word to her. She didn't stop doing it so I started wrapping up the play date, picked up baby & said he was due a bottle, that sort of thing, to signal it was time they went home.
4yo started making a fuss when cousin said it was time to go & she was flustered. 4yo had baby's rattle in her hand & looked like she wasn't going to put it back. I nicely asked are you going to put the rattle back? They both ignored me. Cousin started saying bye, thanks for having us, 4yo still had hold of rattle. I said (nicely again) I'll take that rattle off you now, & she started kicking off really bad, screaming, crying etc. Cousin said nothing to me, just looked at her DD & looked blankly at me. I tried to tell 4yo it was baby's & baby needs it so it has to stay here - more screaming & crying, still no input from cousin. Then cousin says to 4yo, maybe SureJan will let you borrow it until we come again? I said sorry, no. Cousin rolled her eyes at me & said 'really?' in a very pissed off tone, & I stuck to my guns & said yes really, it's not hers to take!
Cousin cajoled & begged 4yo for a good minute or 2 to hand it over, with her screaming full pelt in her face, & eventually cousin snatched it off her, threw it onto the floor & dragged her out of the house saying 'thanks for fucking nothing' to me!
WIBU? Part of me feels bad because it was just a rattle & baby probably wouldn't have missed it, maybe I was being a bit mean? I'm sure cousin thinks I was just being awkward & making her suffer through an embarrassing tantrum that I could have easily stopped by letting her take the bloody thing.
But part of me thinks no, it's not my fault she won't discipline her DD & why should I just give her stuff to take home so that she gets an easier time? It was a rattle & she's 4yo so not age appropriate for her, I feel she was just pushing boundaries & didn't really want it.
I know it isn't my place to tell cousin how to discipline but I do feel she should have stepped in way before the rattle incident by telling her DD to stop snatching, play nicely, be gentle with baby etc. It annoyed me that she didn't!
Am I mean/unreasonable? I have no doubt that there will come a time when baby is older & tantrumming in similar fashion & I'll be able to empathise more, but I don't think in that situation I'd let him take the toy to keep him quiet.

OP posts:
FucksakeCuntingFuckingTwats · 08/01/2018 10:59

I'm really really shocked people are making excuses for the child. I have a four year old, he's my third. Would I fuck let him or either of his big sisters of behaved like that. I'm surprised anyone would. He also doesn't tantrum like that and is not a spoilt brat because we discipline and always have. Your cousin needs to start parenting more effectively. That behaviour isn't acceptable at four.

StepAwayFromGoogle · 08/01/2018 11:03

YANBU, OP. I've got a 3 year old who loves taking a toy off other children. We teach her not to snatch and repeatedly tell her 'that's not yours'. I wouldn't dream of reinforcing the snatching by letting her waltz off home with a toy she'd taken. Your cousin should have been backing you up, not throwing a tantrum herself.

Lemonnaise · 08/01/2018 11:06

FucksakeCuntingFuckingTwats

I agree. None of mine at 4yo would have thrown a tantrum over this. When they're taught these things from very young, it shouldn't be an issue by 4. They would sometimes squabble at home over each others toys but not snatching and tantrums in other peoples houses.

Mishappening · 08/01/2018 11:07

Sometimes when I look after my GC they find it hard to part with a toy and I let them borrow it; and we talk about how that toy lives at Grandma's house and will be looking forward to coming back home! They are very proud to hand it back when they next visit.

I think that the key to dealing with little ones is to be one step ahead and foresee what will pull their chain. I think you could have avoided this tantrum by saying something along the lines of: " That toy belongs to baby really - let's look and see what other toys baby has and if you think he can manage without this for a while so you can borrow it." You are then involving her in the decision rather than dictating and making her dig her heels in. Do not forget that children are endlessly being asked to share! - even when it seems entirely unreasonable to them!

She is only 4, and the world is still a confusing place. And her superego is not fully developed.

Spikeyball · 08/01/2018 11:09

Some 4 year olds will tantrum over things like this despite the parent working on it from when they were young.

IrritatedUser1960 · 08/01/2018 11:11

Wow what fabulous mothering and the swearing at the end in front of you all. There is no way I'd have them in my home again.
My son would not have have dared to behave like that at 4 and no I'm not a horrible person, my son is 35 years old now and we are very close.

LML83 · 08/01/2018 11:14

your cousin was wrong not to help you when you were discouraging the 4 year old from snatching.

You were wrong to not allow the 4 year old to take the rattle (unless you knew it was unlikely to be returned). Really you should have offered, saying no and forcing cousin to wrestle it off child is not very kind to a parent struggling with discipline in public.

Cousin maybe could do things better/differently but for my cousin or friend I would support them not force them into a different way.

I get why you were pissed off and although in a calm space I say i would have gave the rattle, I may have just done the same as you, but it isn't really the best action in my opinion.

OuchBollocks · 08/01/2018 11:14

Agreed, spikey, but in this particular case given that the mother also had a tantrum it doesn't seem likely that much work has gone in.

Lemonnaise · 08/01/2018 11:19

To all the posters who think this is ok...I have a family member who wasn't disciplined when she was young, well discipline consisted of parents rolling their eyes and saying "Oh Sarah, don't do that" in a really lighthearted tone, which she just ignored and carried on and they would look on amused. Apart from zero discipline, she was allowed to take whatever she wanted from whoever she wanted

As the years progressed, she was failed to finish school(blamed the teachers for 'telling her what to do'...Was 'let go' from every job she ever had, the most recent job was for stealing money. Her parents have furnished her entire house for her "Poor Sarah has such hard luck, she needs our help , it's not her fault" they say...Damn right it's not her fault, they fucked her whole life up by spoiling her something rotten.

She can't hold down a relationship for long because when the present buying stops from the boyfriends, she throws a tantrum and they men walk away. She's now a single mother of two who barely parents her own DC, she just gets her parents and the fathers to do it, her siblings hate her and can barely stand to be in her company..the siblings were raised differently(3 boys, all successful). So think very carefully if you think this is OK.

BoredOnMatLeave · 08/01/2018 11:21

I'm with you OP. If cousin had said before you even had to say anything "Would it be OK if DD borrowed the rattle and I will bring it back?" I would have said of course but she didn't. She just stood and watched and then did a PA telling the child I'm sure you can borrow it, would have pissed me off.

Jenna43 · 08/01/2018 11:23

You were wrong to not allow the 4 year old to take the rattle (unless you knew it was unlikely to be returned). Really you should have offered, saying no and forcing cousin to wrestle it off child is not very kind to a parent struggling with discipline in public

Expecting a parent to parent her child in public is wrong? No don't agree with you at all. Why would OP allow a child to take anything out of her house? It's not about the rattle, it's about the lesson it teaches the child.

marypopping · 08/01/2018 11:31

You can't expect to take items from someone's home to appease your 4YO. Cousin is bonkers if she thinks it's ok for her child to take other people's possessions and not return them.

Cousin needs to discipline her child, otherwise she's going to have huge problems with her in the future.

FucksakeCuntingFuckingTwats · 08/01/2018 11:31

Spikey all the more reason to continue instilling discipline and teaching the child what is and isn't acceptable behavior and sticking to your guns when they throw a tantrum.

Bluntness your scenario from the cousins point of view is completely made up. You don't know she has depression etc etc we can only go with the facts we have. Which are that the cousins did not discipline any and behaviour throughout the play date or when leaving. Then wanted to give in to the little girls tantrum which would of reinforced to the child if you throw a tantrum you get what you want. Would I fuck give in. I believe the saying is "making a rod for your own back".

LML83 · 08/01/2018 11:37

@jenna43 of course cousin should parent her child, but I wouldn't use my position as owner of the rattle (ffs) to force her into it. If I felt strongly I would chat to her about it later.
In fact at the time of the child snatching I would say to cousin 'can you ask child to stop snatching from baby' that is the bit where I think the parenting was really missing.

JenniferL90 · 08/01/2018 11:49

@mishappening

That's very different though.

My DD nevers leaves my mum's house without "borrowing" something. My mum loves it and always has something to lend DD.

But - once DD was old enough to then ask at other's houses to borrow something I made sure she knew that was something that we just do with Grandma's stuff. She's fine with that rule.

You don't take home toys from a baby!

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 08/01/2018 11:51

OP, your latest post showed a lot of compassion. A lot more than many of the people on MN. I hope you can sort things out with your cousin.

Lemon, I think you’re over invested.

Jenna43 · 08/01/2018 12:02

Lemon, I think you’re over invested

Haha, the cheek of you. How many times have you posted sticking up for the shitty parent cousin...actually - are you her?

Iwasjustabouttosaythat · 08/01/2018 12:40

Jenna, surely you can see the difference in the content? And that I wasn’t “sticking up for the shitty parent cousin”. Comprehension 101 for you?

FrancisCrawford · 08/01/2018 12:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

burblish · 08/01/2018 13:23

I can’t believe the posters who think it was OP’s responsibility to entertain her cousin’s child (while the child’s mother did nothing), stop the child from behaving badly (while the child’s mother did nothing), present the child with alternative things to play with (while the child’s mother did and brought nothing), and send the child off with her own baby’s toy in response to a tantrum (which the child’s mother did nothing about). All this while also looking after her own baby, of course. Are you for real? I completely agree with the OP: it’s not about the value or utility of the object that the child was tantrumming over - it’s about the principle. The person who caused the “kerfuffle” and the escalation was the child’s mother, not OP.

Jenna43 · 08/01/2018 13:44

Jenna, surely you can see the difference in the content? And that I wasn’t “sticking up for the shitty parent cousin”. Comprehension 101 for you?

You most certainly were sticking up for the shitty parent, several times actually. If parenting 101 for you if you think along the same lines as the cousin.

BigRedMama · 08/01/2018 17:34

YADNBU! I have a 4yr old DD,and I would never allow her to behave like that towards a baby,or let her behaviour escalate to that extent! She would have been taken home alot sooner and explained to her why.

paranoidpammywhammy2 · 08/01/2018 17:35

I think this thread perfectly demonstrates good parenting and poor/lazy parenting. To me it is very clear.

The OP sounds like she dealt very well with the visit. Would she really have got the rattle back? I've had to really beg repeatedly for the return of my daughter's possessions. We now don't do home visits and I try to avoid letting the children have much contact. When friends are crap parents it does impact friendships.

It's hard not to be judgemental sometimes. It will probably be at school when the child starts to be taught not to take other children's things.

Mishappening · 08/01/2018 17:42

Taking account of a child's age and emotions does not mean that discipline is not present. It just means that you put yourself in the child's place and deal with it from that aspect. I think this child would have been less likely to kick off it it had been handled differently - the message is the same, but the way it is delivered is different.

BatShite · 08/01/2018 17:56

YANBU. Your cousin could benefit from saying no to her child once in a while, from the sounds of it