Update on "should my daughter change schools?"

[StillWorkingOnACleverNN]

Summary of previous thread (I don't know how to link!). DD (year 4) is in a classroom with a difficult teacher and started pulling out her hair. We discovered the depth of the problem 4 weeks ago and have been trying to understand if it's just the classroom (it is) and if she has some other mental issues (she doesn't). On the previous thread, I was trying to decide whether to take her out of the school or not. There were many helpful suggestions about how to think about the issue.

DD's therapist met with DD several times and recommended that she NOT go back into the classroom, but rather change classrooms. The school was shocked and I think really didn’t expect this recommendation. (They have worked with the therapist around other children in the past and trust her)

The school is taking the problem seriously and is trying to keep DD in the school rather than moving. There is some huge self-imposed constraint about moving to the other class so that may not be possible. They haven't had a child change classrooms in the last 30 years. We are are exploring things they can put into place to keep her in the current class. They are willing to think outside of the box. Another teacher I trust will be in the class all the time this week so we are OK with sending DD to class while they look into these options or think about how to make it possible for her to switch classes.

It’s still possible they won’t be able to offer something we are OK with, not because they don’t want to but because the fallout from the solution would be worse than having her leave, and we may end up sending her to another school, but we’re all working collaboratively to try to avoid that.

They’ve asked for us to send as wide a list of options as we can for keeping her in the class for the rest of the year. I’ve come up with a few, but if you have other ideas please tell me! We’re sending them this list tomorrow morning so they have some time to think it through. Assume the teacher is toxic (without knowing it), open to change, but the change is going to happen slowly and the solution has to be through June.

My current ideas are:
Full time other adult in the class who has a relationship with the teacher where she intervenes on-the-spot when needed as well as giving continual feedback after class hours (I don’t want to say coach or co-teacher or whatever because it would be a unique role).

Send the teacher on sabbatical to do some special project for the rest of the year. Or offer early retirement.

Open another Year 4 class and ask for volunteer parents to move their children to the new class. This is not as crazy as it sounds. They have an empty classroom, the school is current expanding from 2 forms per year to 3 forms per year, and the expansion year is currently Year 2. There would be several parents who would volunteer.

Can you think of anything else?

I’m really glad that the school is this cooperative.

But I’d be rather surprised if they’d be willing to agree to any of your proposals.
Seeing as even the comparatively (most likely?) rather simple solution of moving her to an other class doesn’t seem like anything they’re willing to at least consider...

But proposing rather expensive solutions might actually increase the likelihood of them agreeing to letting her move to an other class....?

Good luck.

Insane

Personally I think this school has major issues if they cannot faciliate a simple class change for a child with proven anxiety related solely to a single teacher.

If they're worried that other parents will want their child moved maybe they need to address the performance issues of that teacher?

Asking you to make suggestions is 100% unprofessional.

Is it hard to recruit teachers where you are?

Do you not have a good choice of other schools?

I think this school must have more deep seated problems than you realise.

What a nightmare!

Btw, OP, I really do believe that teaching your DD coping strategies and helping her with this anxiety she seems to have might be helpful.

I think op thinks she has more influence than they are actually offering because she is professionally involved in an advisory capacity, friendly with senior management, her dh is a governor and they have several other children at the school. Surely a pupil leaving and returning is more obvious than shuffling classes for the first time on 30 years. Agree they aren't asking for radical solutions to manage the teacher out as your input, more how the situation can be mitigated for your dd short term.

without re hashing, i would not be paying school fees for such uncompetence to the point my child is pulling her hair out.

set up appts at other schools and take her for a look.

FreddieClary Definitely. We are doing that. We've talked as a family about the different ways each of us manages stress and anxiety, and that stress is to be expected and not a bad thing, and how we each productively manage stress. It's a good family conversation and one of the many good things that have come out of this. Others being: I understand my DD better than I did before, and I'm fairly proud of how I have handled it, even MN thinks I am a snowflake and bonkers and so on. I haven't rounded up a bunch of other angry parents or even spoken with other parents in the class, I've relied on my UK mommy friends rather than US mommy friends for support, and I've rediscovered MN instead of my usual US bulletin boards to protect the school from unnecessary bad publicity while they sort this out. And they will sort it out! Just maybe not fast enough for my DD)

This is the exact worry I would have about moving to a fee paying school, although I know the majority would not be like this.

OP - the school obviously isn’t great if it can’t manage a poorly performing teacher and can’t deal with the idea of moving a pupil from one class to another.

I agree with usainbolt. What exactly did the school ask if you? I am sat with my jaw open at your presumption that they want you to suggest ways to manage this teacher. I am an sen specialist of 20 years standing advising SMT s on how to manage youngsters with sen and I have never known a school allow a parent to dictate what happens to a staff member when there is a problem. I wouldn't even make the kind of suggestions you have made myself, and I have a very good relationship with heads and SENCO's. It simply isn't my place nor is it fair on anyone concerned that I tell smt to send a teacher on sabbatical because a child in her class is distressed. I might advise a change of class, but I'd be much more likely to advise that the youngster is supported to develop some coping strategies and the teacher adopt one or two methods to support bonding with class eg circle time.

Are you certain they aren't expecting you to come back with ideas such as
Dd has daily pep talk meeting with learning mentor 10 mins before school
Dd has access to time out pass and a quiet space for if she feels stressed
Dd has stress toy in class
Dd has daily emotion diary to complete
That sort of thing?

If the teacher is that bad and has been for some time, then why on earth has it either not been managed before or why are they not getting rid?

oldbirdy

Totally agree with you

OP has the wrong end of the stick

Op, it's absolutely wrong that the school have asked you for suggestions to solve this problem. You are not a trained psychologist, a teacher or a social worker. You know how the school works but that definitely doesn't give you the right to move a teacher out of her job.

The only suggestion you should come up with is that DD moves classes or she leaves the school. The psychologist hasn't said anything else needs to happen and you seem to have been given far too much power in this situation.

Reading this thread makes me very glad I am not involved in education in the area you live in because it sounds awful!

Your suggestions are batshit insane.

I would just say that if they can't facilitate a move to a different classroom, I will be pulling her from the school. Simple. It's up to them what they do from there.

Like usain I don't think they are asking you to think up what else to do with the teacher, but what support measures can be put in place around your daughter to support her in her current environment (ie this classroom, this teacher). Eg home school book, bubble time board where if children have a worry they can move their name to it and an adult can then see it and discuss, regular catch ups between you and the teacher. It is about addressing her specific worries and that's about the minutiae of what her worries are, addressing them one by one, not removing a person from their job. If your DD is genuinely distressed there must have to be specific incidents that have set this off - sorry I didn't read your initial thread.

Think more nuts and bolts, is my advice. What can be done minute to minute to help DD in her current environment? School is not asking your advice on bringing in additional members of staff.

Ageee with titchy
Your letter tomorrow should say:
'As per counsellor's recommendations the only suitable solution is for Arabella to change classrooms. How you manage this is for you to determine. If this change has not been expedited by the end of the day I will have no option but to withdraw Arabella with effect from tomorrow.'

Of course they don't want you to leave, that would be dds fees and possibly at least one other sibling fees, plus they also have their reputation to defend. The therapist has given them workable advice. They have asked you to come up with an alternative that you would consider. This doesn't change your original options in any way whatsoever change class or change School. Anything else would be selling your daughter short.

Surely they are asking you for suggestions regarding your daughter not how to manage the teacher?

As others say your suggestion should simply be to change classes.

I'm curious to know why this teacher is sparking this behaviour in your child. Is she particularly pressuring? Because it's possible your child is the one with the issue - and that she will keep coming up against people who trigger her. I think you need to dig deeper.

I haven't rtft but felt as a hair puller (with no mh issues) my first thoughts were that you cannot break the habit that easily. I've stopped for years with utilising other methods, it has always come back. I now only do it in private and make sure I don't pull to the extent of patches. For me it has nothing to do with anxiety, it is just a compulsion which no matter how hard I fight it, it continues

To be fair on the OP, I think that if there WERE a catastrophic situation here, she woud have dealt with it really well. The problem is that there isn't. OP, it is awful that your DD3 has become so anxious and distressed this year but I can see why others are shocked and calling 'snowflake.' I didn't like the comment the teacher made about your DD 'not being brave', but, aside from that, you haven't given ANY clear example of where she has behaved bullyingly or inappropriately. Teachers are there to teach and maintain a relationship with children that enables learning. By your own admission, her teaching is excellent. It is really confusing that you say she makes cutting remarks and that some children have found the experience of being in her class so terrible that they left, but then haven't substantiated that with anything concrete about the teacher's actions at all.

I think that it would be better for you to consult another psychologist, who has no association with the school, to explain that it MAY be the case that your DD is identifying the teacher as the source of her distress because she has been led there by you and to let a different therapist interact freely with DD to see if there is anything else going on. You seem to be completely closed off from the idea that there could be other underlying worries for your DD.

If it is the case that this teacher's style has so negatively impacted your DD's emotional wellbeing, I would suggest some work on resilience with her therapist.

I also agree with others that some of your suggestions for how the school manages this situation are totally inappropriate.

I think a large part of the issue is that your DD seems to have picked up the idea from somewhere that what happens elsewhere in the classroom is her business. Not particularly unusual with girls that age, probably made worse by you working there and I’m sure she is aware of your feelings about this teacher.

In th atmosphere of a private school (my parents pay your wages) with the mother involved in management the teacher probably feels totally unable to tell your DD (as I would, perhaps slightly more politely to start with) not to be such a busybody, get on with her own work, how I deal with little Johnny not doing his work etc is not your business.

Whilst it may seem rude for me to say that sort of thing to a child, it’s actually in some ways very reassuring for a child, becuase it makes it clear, in this room the teacher is in charge, the teacher makes the decisions, I don’t have to. Children need boundaries and strong adults to feel secure.

I suspect that the teacher in question is possibly quite anxious and that your DD and her are stuck in a bit of spiral where they make each other worse.

Personally I think the school should move her into another class. If this doesn’t happen for whatever reason you may need to look at getting the therapist to help your DD to not take on other people’s worries and just concentrate on her own work, ignore what is going on around her.

It seems quite extraordinary that the school won't change the class, yet is willing to take some pretty heavy alternative action. Have they told you why?

Oh dear OP, I think you may have misunderstood what they are asking if you. Surely they are asking for your suggestions on how to help your DD cope, not how they should deal with the member of staff?

That said, I’m not sure how much faith I would have in the school leadership if the issue really has been going on as long as you think. You mention a new leadership but if their response to a request to move is that they ‘haven’t done it in 30 years’ it would appear that they are continuing the former leadership style rather than evaluating what could be done differently.

Why has the teacher not been pushed out? It happens, I’ve seen it. If the teacher is that poor, they get pushed gently or not so gently. If other parents have complained, why are they so keen to keep her if support has been given and she hasn’t improved? I don’t know anything about fee paying schools, but I’ve watched 4 teachers be pushed to the point of having to leave over the past few years.

I’d say either your dd moves class or you move schools and kick up a massive fuss with the governors.