Update on "should my daughter change schools?"

[StillWorkingOnACleverNN]

Summary of previous thread (I don't know how to link!). DD (year 4) is in a classroom with a difficult teacher and started pulling out her hair. We discovered the depth of the problem 4 weeks ago and have been trying to understand if it's just the classroom (it is) and if she has some other mental issues (she doesn't). On the previous thread, I was trying to decide whether to take her out of the school or not. There were many helpful suggestions about how to think about the issue.

DD's therapist met with DD several times and recommended that she NOT go back into the classroom, but rather change classrooms. The school was shocked and I think really didn’t expect this recommendation. (They have worked with the therapist around other children in the past and trust her)

The school is taking the problem seriously and is trying to keep DD in the school rather than moving. There is some huge self-imposed constraint about moving to the other class so that may not be possible. They haven't had a child change classrooms in the last 30 years. We are are exploring things they can put into place to keep her in the current class. They are willing to think outside of the box. Another teacher I trust will be in the class all the time this week so we are OK with sending DD to class while they look into these options or think about how to make it possible for her to switch classes.

It’s still possible they won’t be able to offer something we are OK with, not because they don’t want to but because the fallout from the solution would be worse than having her leave, and we may end up sending her to another school, but we’re all working collaboratively to try to avoid that.

They’ve asked for us to send as wide a list of options as we can for keeping her in the class for the rest of the year. I’ve come up with a few, but if you have other ideas please tell me! We’re sending them this list tomorrow morning so they have some time to think it through. Assume the teacher is toxic (without knowing it), open to change, but the change is going to happen slowly and the solution has to be through June.

My current ideas are:
Full time other adult in the class who has a relationship with the teacher where she intervenes on-the-spot when needed as well as giving continual feedback after class hours (I don’t want to say coach or co-teacher or whatever because it would be a unique role).

Send the teacher on sabbatical to do some special project for the rest of the year. Or offer early retirement.

Open another Year 4 class and ask for volunteer parents to move their children to the new class. This is not as crazy as it sounds. They have an empty classroom, the school is current expanding from 2 forms per year to 3 forms per year, and the expansion year is currently Year 2. There would be several parents who would volunteer.

Can you think of anything else?

NoSquirrels Yes, that is true. It's been difficult to navigate the several roles. In the past thread there were assumptions that the larger organization, and school, is incestuous, gossipy, and somehow dysfunctional. I really don't think that's true. It's more like . . . if you were a midwife in a hospital, and your mother was going in for surgery in another department, and the surgeon didn't have a great track record, you might want to make sure (for your own peace of mind if nothing else) that the anesthesiologist was really good. And you would have a lot of details about the surgical team. That's not a great analogy but it's something like that.

all of your suggestions are utterly mad!

1. There will not be enough money to have another adult in the class effectively monitoring the teacher as you don't like her style of teaching. Even if there was, the teacher will not accept this.
2. Why should the teacher send the teacher on sabbatical? Why should she agree to a sabbatical just so that your daughter is not taught by her?
3. The school will not make an entirely new class and populate it just for your daughter.

FGS - just move your daughter either to a different class or a different school. Utter, utter madness.

I find it bizarre that you are being asked to come up with potential solutions. That is not the school thinking outside the box. Would they ask this of a parent less involved with the smt? You should not be able to suggest that a member of staff takes a sabbatical, for example. How would the teacher's reputation or self esteem ever recover from that?

Also, I wouldn't rule out exploring anxiety medication for your DD to help her through this period.

I do not for one minute believe they wont let your daughter change class. And if there are such known issues with the teacher that there would be a stampede then the board would surely remove them?

Wasn’t making any judgements at all, OP - just trying to explain early on this thread why a) you know more than the “average” parent & b) that standard UK education is not what’s being talked about here.

I think any option which is effectively punitive for the teacher (and all of your initial suggestions are) isn’t going to work. Those suggestions shouldn’t come from you.

If the school is prepared to throw money at the problem, they could hire a tutor for your daughter for the next six months.

They could split lessons into subjects and have teachers moving around so there’s no owner of a class

But really, the most cost effective solution which doesn’t punish anyone is your DD moves class.

This is a crazy approach. I work in a school and the idea of asking a parent to do this seems madness. She moves classes or you move school, otherwise surely you are effectively becoming a puppet-master to this person's career.

You focus on your daughter. The school needs to deal with the member of staff as they see fit.

TheSameParts We are very clear now that DD is not an anxious child. She has no anxiety symptoms outside of the classroom - none. No worries, no hair pulling, no nail chipping. She definitely doesn't need medication.

At this point, after therapy, observing the class, etc - no one - not the school leadership, not the therapist, etc - is saying that there is anything wrong with DD other than she found a very visible way to manage the stress of the class, while other children find invisible ways (stomach aches, not wanting to come to school, etc). And some children are not bothered, probably because they don't absorb what the teacher says about them. My older daughter was like that.

The school doesn't want her to leave because it would look terrible for them, and they want to "do right" by DD and not cause her yet another stress. They don't want to switch classes because it would be so disruptive for the faculty and other parents would want to leave the class as well. They really want to find a way for her to stay in the class, and are willing to do almost anything. I am offering options that I would accept, not dictating.

You said in your last thread that lots of the parents liked this teacher?

It's a private school and iirc, not in the U.K., so they won't want to lose income.

Also, I think OP has quite a bit to do with the school.

I can't imagine that this scenario would happen in a U.K. state school.

I think they will be keen to keep the money. The flip side of this is that you are likely to be able to move schools more easily than if you were state.

NoSquirrels Thanks

The school asked her for suggestions - that seems to me that they are willing to consider a variety of solutions, including those which feel workable to OP. She isn't forcing her wishes on anyone so I cannot fathom why everyone is coming down so hard on her.

The real question is if they've known this teacher upsets children and has been doing so for years, why in God's name are they still teaching, unsupervised, if they are known to have problems? And this is not about a parent having a go at a teacher or making false accusations! The poor DD has been psychologically affected, quite seriously, and others can back up the inappropriate teaching / teaching style (whatever it is). Her mum is everywhere within her rights to expect the school to sort it out. The school could quite easily cite to the teacher that they accept there's a 'clash of personalities' and move the DD.

Then go about supervising that teacher who clearly is a very unwelcome presence for a fair number of children both historically and in the present day. And that is NOT ok.

I don't know where you are but I assume that there are employee rights, and this teacher has some?!

No year four child should be medicated due to outside circumstances. That mdication has serious effects on brain chemistry, this child is EIGHT YEARS OLD. To the poster who suggested that - would you do it to your own?

FireCracker2 I was acknowledging that there are a handful of parents who over the years have liked the teacher. I'd put it at 5% think she's good, 75% not the best but take the good with the bad, and 20% this is the worst year of my kid's school life but we will white-knuckle through and DC will learn how to deal with a bad situation. And there have been kids in the past who have left mid-year.

Your suggestions are neither realistic or practical and I can’t see in the long term how they would benefit your DD. If I was you I’d be writing to the school that DD needs moving to another class this week or you will place her in another school.

All of these solutions are bonkers and totally excessive to the issue at hand given the obvious solution to move classes- I would be exceptionally surprised if the school agreed to any of them, except possibly getting rid of the teacher given so many people want her out.

Ask them to move her, a psychologist has recommended it, I wouldn't spend any more time trying to make them do unreasonable things when there is a perfectly reasonable solution in sight.

Or, just remove from the school. All this going on around her can't be helping your child or indeed the teacher who must feel like there's a witch hunt against her even though she's obviously not a very good teacher.

Touchmybum I don't think we are working in opposition to the teacher. I think she is aware there is a problem and has been for a long time, she has tried on her own to fix it, and she has been left to struggle. Unbelievable but true. There is new leadership.

And of course I have no thought of talking directly to the teacher about her struggles, asking for updates from the coach, or anything like that. That's a private relationship.

A teacher who is unable to work with a 4-year-old (who hasn't any SEN) is not a good teacher. And it sounds like it's not only your daughter.

That said, I don't think you can do anything about the teacher herself. Either the school allows your daughter to change class or you change school.

If there is an alternative Yr 4 class, but the school would fund it problematic to move your DD, could the 2 teachers swap? Or could they “job share” the 2 classes so each is teaching for 50% of the week?

NoSquirrels that is a great idea and I'm adding it to the list. Maybe this teacher does social studies/humanities (which is an area of specialty for her) and the other teacher does math/science. The school departmentalizes in Year 5 so it would be moving that forward a year. Thank you!

When I read the first thread (but didn't post on it), I was struck by the accelerated timeline. You had just discovered the hair-pulling issue, immediately drew the conclusion that the teacher was at the root of the problem, and wanted to change schools or classrooms. Presumably your DD was not in school over the past couple of weeks. So how many days has she actually been back in this teacher's classroom since the issue was identified?

It is very clear that you dislike the teacher. Since you also work at the school, that places you in a difficult position as you may have "inside information" that most parents do not have access to. But I think it also means you should refrain from making any suggestions related to the teacher's conditions of employment. I would focus instead on ways to support your DD, either with coping strategies for anxiety or a move to the other class or (if necessary) a different school.