Update on "should my daughter change schools?"

[StillWorkingOnACleverNN]

Summary of previous thread (I don't know how to link!). DD (year 4) is in a classroom with a difficult teacher and started pulling out her hair. We discovered the depth of the problem 4 weeks ago and have been trying to understand if it's just the classroom (it is) and if she has some other mental issues (she doesn't). On the previous thread, I was trying to decide whether to take her out of the school or not. There were many helpful suggestions about how to think about the issue.

DD's therapist met with DD several times and recommended that she NOT go back into the classroom, but rather change classrooms. The school was shocked and I think really didn’t expect this recommendation. (They have worked with the therapist around other children in the past and trust her)

The school is taking the problem seriously and is trying to keep DD in the school rather than moving. There is some huge self-imposed constraint about moving to the other class so that may not be possible. They haven't had a child change classrooms in the last 30 years. We are are exploring things they can put into place to keep her in the current class. They are willing to think outside of the box. Another teacher I trust will be in the class all the time this week so we are OK with sending DD to class while they look into these options or think about how to make it possible for her to switch classes.

It’s still possible they won’t be able to offer something we are OK with, not because they don’t want to but because the fallout from the solution would be worse than having her leave, and we may end up sending her to another school, but we’re all working collaboratively to try to avoid that.

They’ve asked for us to send as wide a list of options as we can for keeping her in the class for the rest of the year. I’ve come up with a few, but if you have other ideas please tell me! We’re sending them this list tomorrow morning so they have some time to think it through. Assume the teacher is toxic (without knowing it), open to change, but the change is going to happen slowly and the solution has to be through June.

My current ideas are:
Full time other adult in the class who has a relationship with the teacher where she intervenes on-the-spot when needed as well as giving continual feedback after class hours (I don’t want to say coach or co-teacher or whatever because it would be a unique role).

Send the teacher on sabbatical to do some special project for the rest of the year. Or offer early retirement.

Open another Year 4 class and ask for volunteer parents to move their children to the new class. This is not as crazy as it sounds. They have an empty classroom, the school is current expanding from 2 forms per year to 3 forms per year, and the expansion year is currently Year 2. There would be several parents who would volunteer.

Can you think of anything else?

Distancecall It is satisfying in my mind to make those ultimatums! Switch classes or else we leave! BUT they might not (for their own reasons) be able/willing to change classes. And leaving would be much, much worse for DD than finding an acceptable solution for staying. So I have to swallow my anger, frustration, helplessness, etc, stop making ultimatums that will ultimately do my DD no good, and try to offer solutions that will benefit DD. And, as an added bonus, all of the solutions I offer will hopefully benefit the other children and maybe the teacher as well.

If I were you, I'd maintain that you want your DD to move to the other class. The new leadership are trying to distract you by giving you other options. But you already know the best option for your DD. Move her to the other class.
If the new leadership want to support the teacher or train her, then they can do that without subjecting your DD to the teacher's learning period.
It's the school's issue to manage the expectations and complaints of the other parents if your DD is moved. You shouldn't worry about it. Put your DD first.

They don't want to switch classes because it would be so disruptive for the faculty and other parents would want to leave the class as well
Big red flags, here! This suggests teacher is known to have major issues.
Move class and let school deal with the other parents and teacher. Your DC should not be the guinea pig for the teacher's learning plan nor should you feel guilty about moving her.
All the best.

My current ideas are: Send the teacher on sabbatical to do some special project for the rest of the year. Or offer early retirement.

After a decade here it's rare things leave me open mouthed, but this just did!

FireCracker2 I was acknowledging that there are a handful of parents who over the years have liked the teacher. I'd put it at 5% think she's good, 75% not the best but take the good with the bad, and 20% this is the worst year of my kid's school life but we will white-knuckle through and DC will learn how to deal with a bad situation. And there have been kids in the past who have left mid-year.

My god! And you are all (literally!) paying for this!

I actually think the ridiculously expensive suggestions are rather brilliant. When faced with these as the other options, moving her is going to seem so simple, cheap and easy......

I don't think we are working in opposition to the teacher.

It sounds like this teacher needs and may well appreciate some help, but it is absolutely not right that a parent is being allowed such a level of input into how this might be put in place, regardless of whether that parent works at the school. It is horribly unprofessional.
I also don't see how you can claim to be just trying to support the teacher when of your suggestions is that she should be 'offered' early retirement .

becotide yes, I would consider medication as an option. Not the first option, but one to explore with a qualified professional. Because anxiety is an illness and medication can help to balance brain chemistry. Like becotide is a chemical that helps kids with asthma.

OP - your DD is clearly not coping in the classroom. If moving classes is off the table, then I would look at how she can better manage her stress. Personally, I am extremely good at masking anxiety symptoms and have been since I was 9yo. It was a post natal anxiety diagnosis that made me realise that my masking behaviours had been going on since childhood. My parents and many GPs have missed it over the past 30 years.

I think an OT is really someone to contact urgently to teach her positive coping techniques - it will benefit her in other arenas in life, not just this blip with a bad teacher.

Everyone I have had many of the reactions you have had! Moving her is obviously the best choice and they may yet do that and we will certainly push for that. But, if they can't, for whatever reason, can you offer other options! On this whole thread I've only heard one! (departmentalize with the other teacher).

(stops yelling at Mumsnet)

DD is not back at school, we resume tomorrow. The deputy head is in the classroom all day every day next week while we sort this out.

If she is as you've said NOT an anxious child, other than with this teacher, why are you so adamant that moving schools would be disastrous for her?

Oh my gosh - what a thread

You sound snowflake of the worst variety

And yes you working at the school means you are in a conflict situation so you should be very mindful of your duty to the school not just your daughter. It honestly sounds like you have a personal vendetta against this teacher

You should keep your daughter in the class and teach her how to actually get on in life and deal with different personalities etc. What is she going to do when she starts work and has a boss that ‘criticises’ ?! You need to work (at home) on her internal resources for dealing with these types of things not just blame the teacher, who does not sound like she IS doing anything wrong

I’m really shocked by this.

You and a therapist have been asked by the leadership team of a school to work out how to manage a staffing issue? They’ve actually asked a parent to write down some options for them to think about because they don’t know what to do? Is this correct?

This appears to be a little beyond the remit of a parent and therapist, surely?!

becotide DD is working with the therapist, and we are talking as a family, about productive ways to manage stress (DD pointed out a couple of weeks ago that when I ate the entire carton of ice cream that was not a good way to manage stress), and DD will continue to work with the therapist throughout this year.

But we are all remaining clear that DD has absolutely no signs of mental health issues outside of this classroom, and had none going into it. She is the most emotionally astute person in this situation with her awareness that something is not right and her 8 year old attempt to deal with it.

OP, I wasn't saying that you should give the school an ultimatum. I was saying that I think you only have two options: either your daugher is placed in another class, or you change school. I don't think the school or you can do anything about the teacher, as she seems to have very ingrained habits (and, as I said, I think she's a terrible teacher if she upsets little children and doesn't even notice).

I think medication is a terrible option. Your daughter doesn't have a neurological problem: she has a problem with a person, and she's too young to have the skills to cope with it (and it really should be the teacher and the school dealing with the problem). Trying to medicate it away will do nothing but conceal the problem, and probably "mark" your daughter as "problematic".

Imagine any other situation where this would happen.

Hello Passenger in seat 24C. The pilot is having some issues landing the plane. Can you help at all? I know you’ve zero experience but could you write a list of options down? There’s a gardener sitting next to you, could you give her a hand?

titchy I am totally confident she would be fine in a new school. But her siblings go to this school, her friends are in this school, I love the school philosophy and approach (other than this issue), the school is particularly strong in adolescence, and if she can stay, that is ideal.

They won't change class as they haven't done it for 30 years.

But you think they'll be open to paying teacher to do little elsewhere for 2 terms, pay someone to be in class and basically pick on teacher for anything they don't like or open a new class?

I thought you sounded over zealous and over analytical on last thread.

Now I just think you're bonkers!

(And I say that as a parent who's child self harms due to school anxiety)

titchy she could also come back to the school next September or in Year 6, which is a transition year in the school where they bring in a few new children, so if she did have to move this year that would be good. But then she would be leaving whatever friends she makes at the new school. So again, that's fine but not ideal.

As a member of a SLT I do not interpret the schools request for things they can do as you are. It is not for parents to have any input on the discplinary actions or retirement plans of teachers! My reaction is that they are asking you what can be done to help you daughter in the current situation - not what you think should be done to the teacher.

Some coping strategies that could be implemented for your daughter:-

Time out or one to ones if she feels she is getting stressed and help to deal with each situation.

Your daughter to have a mentor outside of the class to discuss how she is feeling

Legally the teacher could not be asked for early retirement after decades of service on the advice of one parent

I can’t understand why you haven’t started your DD in another school when her current one has such problems with teaching staff.

Distancecall thanks for clarifying. My initial reaction was there is no circumstance under which DD is staying in that class. But I'm trying to work with them. There is no harm in exploring options, I think.

It may be a private school but an extra wage would still need to be found - do you honestly think other parents would agree to fees going up to accommodate this? And has anyone spoke to the teacher how she feels about all this? What options has she been offered? If she’s been there as long as you say then the governors must have been happy with her to have allowed it. If you had a child who would have her next year, knowing that this year she’s been forced to have such intense scrutiny would you want them on her class? I think the long term knock on effect for the school could be terrible.
The therapist has said move her - she needs to be moved and if the teacher needs extra help let it be done in a way that she can be helped but still keep some form of dignity.

Parker231 Just the one teacher. One. The rest are great.

Pen I think the op thinks because she pays for the education she can behave and dictate whatever she wants - all the while whilst ignoring the real problem which she doesn’t want to face up to which is that her dc3 has some emotional problems /anxiety. Much easier to blame the teacher (who she had no problem with when teaching her dc2) rather than face up and actually think her dc3 might be the issue

Foslady The school is part of a larger institution. The school part of the overall budget is maybe 10%. There is a large endowment. The money could be found and school fees would not go up.