In wanting sahd dh to get a job

[witcheshats]

So today dh and I have been discussing our plans for 2018. He has been a sahd since we had dc (youngest now 5 and eldest 7) mainly because he had no career and I did.

When we first married he had some regular work to do with foreign students and it was regular and quite well-paid. He earned about 18k working about 4 non-consecutive months, so that on top of my salary (teacher) was great, and it mainly took place in school holidays so we had no childcare to pay as family helped out for the few weeks when it didn't. I thought this a near-perfect arrangement but he often moaned that he hated the work (boring apparently) and the people were so dull and conventional (unlike his stoner musician mates) and we could never have a holiday - we can't really afford one anyway.

Over the years, the work has fallen away and for the past two years he hasn't worked at all. I believe he had some sort of fall-out with his boss but I'm not really sure what happened. He thinks he's been treated unfairly, I think he may have antagonised her and done something wrong, but obviously will never really know.

I said nothing about his lack of work initially because it kind of fell away gradually and anyway he was at home with the dc. However, they are now both at school so I would like it if he started earning. We haven't discussed it much, but whenever we do he gets very defensive and says I don't care about him, want to see him stacking shelves etc etc. He has no real qualifications, aside from in the very specific field he appears to have cut himself off from, so I suppose he is quite limited in what he could go for, but that isn't my fault.

He is writing a book, has been for years, has had a few articles published in local magazines, plays in a band etc etc and I know he wants to expand all of that stuff, but meanwhile I am left with sole responsibility for bringing in money.

Anyway, today he revealed he has no intention of 'wasting time' on a 'shitty' job this year and instead would like to do a masters degree in creative writing. Obviously, this would have to be paid for out of my salary. I am devastated and just feel so lost and helpless. When I said I wasn't sure he got angry and said he would support me in anything I wanted to do, but that has a hollow ring to it somehow. He's now up in the attic and his fucking music is on and I'm pissed off.

If it's relevant and so as not to dripfeed, he is a good sahd and has done a fair bit with the dc in terms of playgroups etc, and he also loves cooking and does a lot from scratch - I rarely cook. He does most day to day cleaning/laundry and I do very little, though I pretty much take over with the dc when I'm home. I would obviously do more if he worked. He also has MS, though is not impaired by it atm and hasn't had an attack for three years.

AIBU or is he?

If they're not together anymore then his health and work status are none of her business beyond how it affects contact.

It’s not nonsense to point out mn hypocrisy,its pretty routine and frequent
I don’t see it cutting both ways were finances are tight,sahm advised to get a job
Usually the advice is to rein in spending,cook the mn chicken,buy 2nd hand etc
A minority will say yes,sahm should work.majority will be aghast

And fwiw,I agree the dh should work,the financial burden shouldn’t be solely borne by op
The progression of MS varies,and the neurologist can advise
The diagnosis in itself isn’t a reason not to work,but health will be a factor he needs to consider

Lipstick

I too have seen some hypocrisy but have to disagree.
Having only just started work after a 25 year gap of being a sahm, I can confirm that women are told to get a job and looked down upon for being a sahm, just as much, if not more.
apparently they let feminism down.

equally on mn women who work are avaricious wage slaves who outsource their dc

If they're not together anymore then his health and work status are none of her business beyond how it affects contact.

Exactly, assuming I am correct and OP's "d"h is actually an ex (OP has not been back to state otherwise), not only is OP not supporting him financially but she will also not really know how his MS symptoms effect him and whether he really is able to work. Not sure what she wanted to acheive by this thread really.

If they're not together anymore then his health and work status are none of her business beyond how it affects contact.

Exactly

He's annoyed with you because you were dismissive of the only thing he feels is truly 'him', that is, his writing. He has lost all self esteem, is probably worried about his future, and has little motivation for anything. If you want to keep the communication open, you have to acknowledge the importance of something to someone first so you start with 'I know your writing is important to you, however we also have to be realistic'.
Sounds like he's afraid. Afraid of the jobs, afraid of the people, afraid of failing. So sitting at home writing and making billions from a book seems like an ideal solution...in theory.
The idea about something is so much nicer and better than the reality sometimes.
How much time does he spend writing each day? Does he actually enjoy the writing? Can he go on a writing course for a few days? Even a residential thing maybe. There must be a half way measure.
Is he in a local Writer's group? Does he read voraciously and talk about books? Does he go to Literature and Arts festivals and Writers conferences? Would he travel to go to one? Does he care that much about it.
Where is the evidence that writing is his life blood and his only option?

Well, Roomster101 you are quite the detective. I wasn't sure whether to come back to this after being rumbled, but on the off-chance you do come back to this I'll just let you know what I did want from the thread. I've posted on MN for about 10 years under various names, often, but certainly not only, about my marriage, which, as you presumably know ended in pretty awful circumstances. The advice and support I have had here has been invaluable, especially as I don't have that many outlets in RL, and particularly now that everything is 'sorted' as far as friends and family are concerned. It has therefore been pretty distressing for me to have you 'out' me in this way, and I do wonder why you felt the need to do it rather than just assuming that some sort of need was being met by the thread. I am also surprised and not a little unsettled that you remember these details as I don't remember posting about the masters myself and, as I must have, it would have been nearly four years ago .

As you and a few others have asserted that it's none of my business what ex does now that we are divorced, and you have questioned what I wanted from the thread, I'll clear that up for you. Since we split he has not paid any maintenance, though he does have the dc regularly. I have added to my mortgage quite a bit to pay him out and also have to put money aside to give him when youngest comes of age. There is very little put away for the dc's futures, which worries me constantly. He doesn't work regularly still, despite landing quite a decent job when he first moved out that suited his circumstances in many ways. He did his usual trick of dismissing it as 'boring', his boss as 'an areshole' and gave it up. He hasn't struck lucky again and now has to have his income supplemented by his mother. People are right to say I know less about his MS now than I did then, but I do know he has taken up/restarted two hobbies, both of which are quite physically taxing in different ways. Now, whenever I try and mention maintenance, or suggest that he buys something for the dc/pay for a school trip here and there, I am met with a rant about how I have ended up with everything, he is poor, I drove him away because I wouldn't support his ambitions etc etc. Incidentally, the marriage ended due to his infidelity, which had been going on for two years when he suggested doing the masters.

I posted as I did following an email from him as detailed above. There would be no point my asking should he get a job now/should he pay maintenance, because I know everyone would say yes. But I turned the clock back in case people think I was UR at the time and it is my fault how everything turned out. Still picking at the scab of the marriage I suppose. So there was very much a point for me, but I should probably get some counselling as MN clearly isn't as anonymous as I thought. I'll think twice before posting again, but, as always it has helped to write this down.

I have even more sympathy for OP than I did previously. At least you're rid of the lazy fucking parasite. There are lots of men like this, who are all too special to work for a living. Writing/music/film-making/painting are favourite 'dreams' with them, though they rarely have any actual talent in the fields they consider they are destined to succeed in. (Sadly some people with tremendous talent are unable to make a living in these fields, but those people are, funnily enough, the ones who will take on floor-scrubbing/burger-flipping/shelf-stacking jobs while they work on their art...)

I'm not sure I understand. If he's an ex, and he was talking about the MA years ago, why is it an issue now?

I hope you still got some sort of emotional support from the thread. If all this happened years ago, you're asking a very different question to the one we thought you were asking.

Presumably he didn't do the MA then. Does he write now?

OP I haven’t done any searching and I too remembered a lot of your circumstances. They are/were quite unusual so I suppose “stuck” and then as now I think you’ve been very poorly treated by him. It’s not fair but you need to rely on him for nothing as he will use requests as a chance to get under your skin again.

witches poor you! Don’t be too alarmed about people recognising a situation- 4 years is in a way no time at all, even if it would seem a lifetime since fir you. If the circumstance is unusual enough & perhaps piques your interest in j one way or another (Creative Writing, teacher, SAHD partner with MS) then it’s not too out there to recall it, especially if the posting style is familiar.

I’m sorry you went through a shit time. No maintenance & needing to save up (presumably to buy him out of the family home?) sounds crap. But at least you are no longer held hostage with “not supporting my dreams” bullshit, or sulking like a child by the computer.

Is the "wanting to do the MA" thing the current situation, potentially impacting CM? Or is it the four year ago situation that you're processing now?

I will start by saying I have MS. I also have a full time job. It is possible to work with MS and many do. Many however are unable to due to the nature of their symptoms but also employers unwillingness to employ someone with it.

I'm amazed at the attitudes of those saying MS would be reason enough not to work. It's not, but it is entirely dependent on the person. My MS specialists from Addenbrookes all seem happy with my continued employment, none have ever suggested I stop work to limit the damage, my MS nurse keeps telling me it's good I am able to work.

And before anyone asks, yes my work are very supportive and have asked if I need any modifications to my work conditions but so far, I have not.

In the case of this ex Dh, I can not say if it's his MS or if he is just not wanting to work. I can see though that it is possible he is nervous of working and setting off damaging relapses, I am afraid of dong too much at times and am now hobby less due to my fears. The future scares me, but at least when I am working I have something else to focus on.

I must say though if he felt capable of taking a MA then there is little difference between that and a part time job. And yes before anyone asks I know about those too having taken a masters.

I think the MA conversation 4 years ago was the straw that broke the camel’s back, leading up to the divorce:

because I wouldn't support his ambitions etc etc. Incidentally, the marriage ended due to his infidelity, which had been going on for two years when he suggested doing the masters.

and after getting another email about how he now can’t pay any maintenance (“a rant about how I have ended up with everything”) OP was questioning again if she was to blame somehow for his employment situation, and the fact her DC will get nothing monetary from him.

So it’s a 4-year-old situation that can’t now be changed, but OP wanted to get opinions on if she had done the right thing at the time.

I have ME and the comparison upthread by Eltonjohn between ME and MS was bizarre. They are both serious illnesses and people also sometimes die of ME. In it’s most severe form it is a constant living death.

I can’t do what most people take for granted and it feels like a living death much of the time to me. I am far too ill to work. I can’t go shopping, i never go out in the evening, I struggle to feed and look after my child, I spend most of my time in bed. I also have chronic pain, fibromyalgia, which is so debilitating in itself. I cannot push myself as I also can suffer relapse.

I have been advised on mumsnet to get an electic wheelchair. I don’t see a great deal of point because I won’t have more energy even if I do. When I’m ill, I need to be prostrate. So if I’m well enough to sit up in a wheelchair, I’m well enough to walk a few yards,

Witches - he sounds like a tosser. I think you did the right thing and I’m sorry the MN detectives have upset you.

I work part time and dh full time (our dc are both at secondary school). My dh’s earning potential is vastly greater than mine because of our chosen careers. On the days I don’t work I do some voluntary work (a few days per month) and otherwise do have a bit of an easy life. I do do the cooking, washing, shopping, general life admin but it doesn’t take that much of my time. I feel very lucky that our life has the balance it does. I certainly wouldn’t be expecting my husband to suddenly cough up £14k for me to do a masters if I wasn’t earning at all. Writing is something I have toyed with too but certainly if I was to go down that route it would be through classes in the daytime at my local college/adult education centre and lots of trying to do it by myself (oh and I have already got a degree!) I hope that reassures you that most reasonable people would think you were perfectly sound in your decision.

As for not paying any maintenance, that’s totally inexcusable.

If they're not together anymore then his health and work status are none of her business beyond how it affects contact.

I completely disagree.

They have children together. It is totally her business whether he’s making any effort to earn money and provide for them.

She might not be able to do anything about it, but she’s certainly reasonable to be pissed off! Do people here really think the non-resident parent’s sole obligation is ‘contact’?

witcheshats I'm not a detective. I just remember previous posts of yours because some of the details are memorable (not the MA actually). I understand why you are pissed off with your ex, but as someone who has had MS for over 30 years, I find it quite irritating the way you invite strangers who mostly know little about MS to comment on what your ex DH should be doing with regard to work (or in the past, housework etc).
It is a very individual disease and nobody can say including you.
For many people, MS is quite an invisible illness to begin with between relapses and even people's spouses may not really know what is going on (I certainly didn't discuss much with DH). There is also the fatigue and the discrimination at workplaces (a friend was made "redundant" after diagnosis) which can make it harder to get a job if you don't already have one. I do work but I had a degree and other qualifications and well paid job before diagnosis. There are many many jobs I couldn't do now and I don't think it would be easy to find a "shitty job". Basically, I don't like others deciding what I can and can't do or what other people with MS can and can't do so I remember you posts...

It's fair enough that someone would at least wonder why you're repeating postinn themes over an unlikely period of time OP and Roomster's point about the MS misinformation is also valid. Some of the posts about MS on this thread have been cringe-inducing.

I haven't read the whole thread but saw your update. Have you ever been through the child support agency? Whatever they call themselves these days.

Roomster Thanks for replying. I can see why my threads have touched a nerve with you and I do take your point about my not knowing exactly how ex feels etc. However, as I think I have made clear, and I'm sure I did n previous threads which you presumably remember, his lack of commitment and drive and reluctance to work predates his MS. He got his diagnosis 14 years ago in his mid 30s following one major attack, not years of symptoms, by which point he had already dropped out of the degree he began in his 20s and was committed to a life of being a musician/trying to be a writer and had decided a regular job was not for him. That's not to say the MS doesn't affect him, of course it does, but I doubt he'd be any more responsible of he didn't have it.

Also, while it's fair to say he couldn't do any job, and shelf-stacking may well have exhausted him (I never wanted him to do that, it was just an example he gave to show my lack of respect for him) I do think wanting to spend thousands on an MA that would, I'm sure, never have paid for itself, was/is selfish. He may have MS, but he also has children, but he never seems to factor them and their future into any decisions he makes. Knowing his earning potential is limited should make him less, not more keen to spend vast amounts on himself imo. I do know other people with MS, including his own sister, and they don't have that attitude at all. He's a selfish man who has a disease that I sympathise with, but it doesn't mean he has no faults.

As to inviting strangers to comment on him when they don't know his side and how his MS affects him, that is true of any number of threads on here, if we substitute the MS for any number of other factors that may or may not be referred to in the many threads people post criticising others, fairly or unfairly. Hopefully ex has a support network - he certainly has a lot of financial support from his mother (which also predates his MS), but MN is mine. I'm sorry if you've been offended, but my comments about ex's MS don't detract form your experiences, or those of others with the disease.

He is your ex. Absolutely none of your business.

I'm sorry if you've been offended, but my comments about ex's MS don't detract form your experiences, or those of others with the disease.

It does actually because it leads to complete nonsense that has been said on this thread about MS.

You have no idea really how it affects him now. If you want maintenance as is your DCrighr then go through CSA.

Your OP was completely disingenuous and misleading.