In wanting sahd dh to get a job

[witcheshats]

So today dh and I have been discussing our plans for 2018. He has been a sahd since we had dc (youngest now 5 and eldest 7) mainly because he had no career and I did.

When we first married he had some regular work to do with foreign students and it was regular and quite well-paid. He earned about 18k working about 4 non-consecutive months, so that on top of my salary (teacher) was great, and it mainly took place in school holidays so we had no childcare to pay as family helped out for the few weeks when it didn't. I thought this a near-perfect arrangement but he often moaned that he hated the work (boring apparently) and the people were so dull and conventional (unlike his stoner musician mates) and we could never have a holiday - we can't really afford one anyway.

Over the years, the work has fallen away and for the past two years he hasn't worked at all. I believe he had some sort of fall-out with his boss but I'm not really sure what happened. He thinks he's been treated unfairly, I think he may have antagonised her and done something wrong, but obviously will never really know.

I said nothing about his lack of work initially because it kind of fell away gradually and anyway he was at home with the dc. However, they are now both at school so I would like it if he started earning. We haven't discussed it much, but whenever we do he gets very defensive and says I don't care about him, want to see him stacking shelves etc etc. He has no real qualifications, aside from in the very specific field he appears to have cut himself off from, so I suppose he is quite limited in what he could go for, but that isn't my fault.

He is writing a book, has been for years, has had a few articles published in local magazines, plays in a band etc etc and I know he wants to expand all of that stuff, but meanwhile I am left with sole responsibility for bringing in money.

Anyway, today he revealed he has no intention of 'wasting time' on a 'shitty' job this year and instead would like to do a masters degree in creative writing. Obviously, this would have to be paid for out of my salary. I am devastated and just feel so lost and helpless. When I said I wasn't sure he got angry and said he would support me in anything I wanted to do, but that has a hollow ring to it somehow. He's now up in the attic and his fucking music is on and I'm pissed off.

If it's relevant and so as not to dripfeed, he is a good sahd and has done a fair bit with the dc in terms of playgroups etc, and he also loves cooking and does a lot from scratch - I rarely cook. He does most day to day cleaning/laundry and I do very little, though I pretty much take over with the dc when I'm home. I would obviously do more if he worked. He also has MS, though is not impaired by it atm and hasn't had an attack for three years.

AIBU or is he?

Yes. He. Can.

It's a creative subject. The portfolio trumps everything else.

The only MA or MSc courses I am aware of that don't require a degree are four year courses. If only one year, they will require an undergrad degree first.

more time to do fuck all
Oh my. I would love to see you say that on this thread with the sexes reversed and watch what happened.

In fact, this whole thread would be totally different. Your kids are still young. Is everyone suggesting that a SAHP's worth ends when children start school, and that SAHMs should stack shelves because they have responsibilities?

I am totally with windy on this one. I don't know who commented that, as the kids are now in school he is now just unemployed not a SAHP...would you be saying that about a female SAHP? Sometimes MN hurts my head, if this poster had the tables turned and was writing that her DH was insisting she get a job the replies would be VERY different.

Bugger that for a laugh. He seems to have these grand ideas and then bails at the last minute - a quick scout round shows that its in the region of £8-10K!! That is a stinking amount of cash and without the prospect of anything really developing from it.

FWIW my DH is a SAHP - I don’t think once the kids are in schoool that he should get a job unless he wants one. But what works in our house doesn’t necessarily work in others and, more importantly, my DH doesn’t take the piss. That’s some serious cash outlay - could you even afford it??

willow, the clue is in the opening post -

You've put your aspirations aside to raise children. With the MA, why shouldn't you now do something for YOU?'

He hasn’t put aside his aspirations, he has continued to write, play in a band, and the one consistent job he has petered out, without him even discussing with his wife what happened/why/what might replace it.

you had an agreement you would be the SAH parent - why should you be forced to work now? - I actually don’t think I’d see anyone saying that, but even so, she is not forcing him, she is starting a conversation, which he has very promptly shut down with an unrealistic request.

I think the MS is by-the-by, if he hasn’t had an attack for 3 years, it doesn’t make any difference to him doing what he wants to do, and clearly he wants to continue doing things his way without any concern for his family.

Everyone I have known, who has a chronic/life limiting illness, has done everything they can to stockpile money/make chinks in mortgages etc.

OP, when was he diagnosed, is that why he dropped out of university? If not, I think it seems very strange that he left with only a term to go - did something happen? What he failing and left rather than getting a bad mark?

The one thing that I think is clear is that you have never challenged him very much/successfully, and this makes it all so much harder.

FWIW, I think he needs to get a job first. If he can get into a routine with that, then he can add in the degree (and I realise I think that because that’s exactly what I”ve done!).

Good luck. I think you have your work cut out.

The only MA or MSc courses I am aware of that don't require a degree are four year courses. If only one year, they will require an undergrad degree first.

You're just wrong. Creative PG taught admissions will often admit non graduates on the strength of a portfolio.

As a PP says, we don't know if he actually has a portfolio to submit, but that doesn't make portfolio admission less possible in general.

I too think this sounds familiar and that OP has posted about him before.

Anyway ... I'm wondering if the work you said he used to do was exam marking? That's mainly in school holidays, in non-consecutive months and is quite boring but can be lucrative. If so, he really should get back into doing that, as it's flexible enough to enable him to do other creative stuff on top if he really feels the need.

I would feel frustrated too in your shoes and I don't think YABU. It sounds like he just fell into being a SAHD rather than being an active choice made by both of you.

tabbywabby, I think the stacking shelves problem came from the DH himself - no one would want to, but he HAD a decent paying part time job that made a BIG difference to their lives, and he stopped it without any reference to why or what was going to replace it.

If a woman said that she wanted to start an MA when her husband was on a teachers salary, and she had stopped bringing in a relevant salary in the previous months, I think she would get short shrift. If the DH said “my wife used to do this, but I’ve no idea why she doesn’t any more, maybe she did something wrong, and anything she says is was “boring”, and she only did two editing jobs because that was boring too, she dropped out of her degree at hte end, and wants to be in a band, and wants to write a novel, and wants to do a creative writing degree and for me to sub her out of my teachers salary”, I think we would be saying the same.

I really do.

If the OP’s DH had presented her with a plan -

This university,
This course,
This much money,
This is how the loan would work...etc. etc. she/we might feel differently. But this is just plucked out of the air by someone who has never finished anything by the sounds of it.

If he doesn't commit to a lot then I doubt he has a portfolio strong enough to get him onto a masters course without a degree. I would let him apply knowing his unlikely to be excepted. But given courses don't start til September if tell him you expect him to get a job to fill that gap to boost the income for that period in time.
With hopes that he gets a job but not into the course so you can discuss him continuing to work in which to save up for a family holiday.

My friends husband found it very difficult to get a job with MS, it was because it was so unpredictable.

I think being a sahp parent is, like others have said, totally reasonable if you're financially stable and don't need a second income. It sounds like you're doing okay (as in, staying afloat), but not rolling in the money, and it doesn't sound like a fully mutual decision, which is should be. Especially with 2 school age children, there's no reason he can't be working part-time or self-employed around the school runs.

I think what someone else said about his MA course is totally on point. It's totally fine to support his dreams and support (in an emotional way!) him to self-fund his MA. But he has to be able to demonstrate it's going to lead to furthering his career, a promotion, etc. An MA in creative writing does not magically lead to a book deal. I would expect him to demonstrate that he is motivated to work and be employed before you jointly consider him taking time away from that work to study. What's the point of getting an MA if he doesn't seem to want to work? He'd be better getting an unpaid internship or something similar with a publisher or magazine, etc. to get work experience and then apply for jobs in a literary field with that experience. If that works out well, down the line, an MA might be a reasonable next step. Similarly, there are a few mentored sort of apprenticeships for creative writers out there. I know my friend did one in the U.S. (not necessarily helpful if you are in the UK, but look here and see what you find). It's called the 4th Semester. If you get in, they mentor you through the writing process and connect you with editors who have an interest in your book. That said, very few books generate enough income to replace having a 9-5 job (I know, as I have experience in publishing and am working on a book myself). It's a hobby or a side gig for most people. I think it's reasonable to expect him to do all these other things to show he is motivated to work in a publishing or literary field first BEFORE you together commit to an MA course and to carry on with the book in evenings or weekends when he has free time. I got a PhD and my husband supported me (not paid for the course, but took on more of the financial responsibilities at times), but I worked in the field for about 10 years prior, also worked part-time while I was doing my degree, and this previous work led on to a promotion with a higher degree (I also took on a greater share of the parenting during this time). I would want a similar level of commitment from him before jumping into anything that just sounds like delaying the inevitable (getting a real job).

If he doesn't commit to a lot then I doubt he has a portfolio strong enough to get him onto a masters course without a degree.

Maybe or maybe it is literally finishing things he struggles with and he has a tonne of good work in progress.

But given courses don't start til September if tell him you expect him to get a job to fill that gap to boost the income for that period in time.

Yes if he'll be reasonable and apply for PT jobs now he could potentially continue with one through a two year, PT course and a PG loan would cover his fees.

As a parent of school-age children, I understand that life doesn’t suddenly become a cruise once they’re at school (realistically there are only about 6 hours in the school day available for paid employment, less commuting time) but I do think your DH needs to get real.

I’m a professional writer lucky enough to earn well from it. This year I worked about 20 hours a week to earn an average full-time equiv salary. I also wrote a book, and have a deal for it. Plus I do a greater share of housework and childcare than my partner, who has a conventional full-time job plus commute. So I know what I am talking about.

Your partner can work, and be the “on-call” parent and do his Masters. In fact, if he doesn’t think he can do all three, he should probably forget about being a professional writer. Unless you are the sort of rare star who gets a high six-figure advance for a book, no serious writer takes years to write a book. One year, working on it part-time is completely doable. Two years is luxurious. Three years or more is not even a hobby.

If you want to strike a compromise, I’d tell him you want to see him take a part-time job next year to save for the Masters the following one, and use the rest of his time to finish the book. The Masters will help him improve his book if he is any good. It will not help him finish one. He needs to be able to show he is serious about doing the work first. Otherwise he is just wasting money and time.

I think I would find the negative income imbalance too much for me

Men who are SAHP seem, on the whole, to be much more content to leave the bulk of the housework to their WOHP female partners. I wonder how much this is the case for OP's family.

Creative writing courses are , almost always, a self-indulgent waste of money and time. Their only real purpose is, er, to provide an income for the struggling-but-talented writers who are teaching the courses to top up their own limited earnings from writing.

And the odds are very much in favour of this bloke being a talentless wanker who just likes the idea of himself as a writer/musician, given that he seems to have produced the sum total of fuck all during his years at home.

To be fair, it is difficult for SAHPs to get paid work while DC are in primary school: you have to factor in paid childcare for after-school, and the need to take time off at short notice if the kid wakes up with the galloping shits or whatever. There are jobs that can be fitted round this, though: stuff like copy-editing or translating, or transcription (all the sort of thing that a would-be writer and someone with some education experience could handle). I have done market research work which involved flexible hours when DS was younger. But I don't think this man is entitled to spend the family money on a course which will not lead to an increase in family income and which benefits only him.

A few people on my MA didn't have a degree, and only a few had a degree in a related area. We had to submit a portfolio of work before being invited to interview

It's not the lack of degree that's the problem - it's having walked out of a degree course a month before the exams. It won't necessarily stop him from being accepted, but the lack of ability to finish what you start would probably count against him.

It is really difficult for a sahd to get work. My dp has been for some years and there is a lot of prejudice.

Hmm. If I were at home 9.15-3 and did all cleaning, laundry, wifework plus all wraparound childcare and sickness, and my partner said I needed to get a job too I'd be a bit cross at my contribution not being valued.

If he does get a job then you will need to step up and do a lot more in the house and possibly also take time off for childcare too.

It might be more realistic to ask him to look at turning one of his interests/skills into a job that he can control so he can still do all of that.

That's what I did but I am knackered as I work three jobs in 2.5 days, look after a preschooler and a young school age child and do the wife work, cleaning etc.

You might find your life is easier as it is at the moment OP.

I'm grateful to those who have been answering questions on my behalf while I was putting dc to bed/eating - Ibrogia you answered those posts exactly as I would have!

I have not posted about this specific issue before (MA was sprung on me tonight) bit under other names I have posted about other issues we've had. I also lurk a lot on SAHD threads and it does annoy me when someone inevitably says it would be different if a woman was the sahp. Although I think dh does a fair bit, he obviously does a lot less now the dc are at school and I do still carry most of the mental load, and always have done. He gets far more free time than me, for instance, and has a way of describing things he does as f they're 'for' me somehow. I don't think the majority of SAHM have the same outlook as he does and it's not a helpful argument. We certainly didn't agree that he wold be a sahp forever, and him bringing in no money was never part of the plan. My salary has gone up over the last few years, and that is always factored into plans, and was tonight as well, as in: "you'll be earning more by then...you'll probably be head of dept by then so will be on more." I find it a little scary and feel trapped sometimes by it.

He has no clear plan, we are in the East Midlands and he has seen a course he'd like. No idea if he has enough for a portfolio.

It's the ultimate go-nowhere degree with the ultimate do-nothing option. Don't be fooled by this man any more

This.

Do you think his confidence has taken a knock OP? A CV gap can do that.

Your husband is a dreamer.

Put your foot down and say no and you want him to get a job. Any job.

It sounds a bit airy fairy to me. I'd be a lot more sympathetic if he wanted to train to be a nurse or an engineer or something. Hobby MAs are nice for retired people or youngsters, but not for people with responsibility for children. However, pps have made fair points about his possible lack of confidence for obvious reasons. Also, creative writing is probably the sort of thing that could be done within school hours.

Maybe a compromise? He does it, but has to pull in £x per month from a part time job as well. I'm sure he's not too grand for shelf stacking work. And if this band is any good, they could get pub gigs surely.

Would unqualified DH get onto a decent course? MAs aren't for the faint-hearted or the unskilled - suggest he might want to get English GCSE first.

You can work while getting an MA, everyone I know has done. YANBU. You're being played.

I am currently doing a creative writing MA and its brilliant. You do a module about cultural industries and are actually required to submit work as part of your degree as they expect you to be at a levelo that is publishable.

I was like your husband. I was a stay at home mum and had very little in qualifications. Due to being diagnosed with a series of life limiting ilness i decided to pursue my passion for writing. It has been life changing for me. In terms of my confidence, self esteem and also my writing skills. I am now going onto a PhD and hoping to secure a GTA position.

Your OH can get a MA loan. It pays £3450 or so every 4 months and my fees are £1700 out of each payment. I do not pay anything back unless my earnings increase above £21k.